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The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

newyorker.com

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Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#41

Post by coldtea »

golergka wrote: post #18
bambax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". The goal is not to fight so-called sex-crimes or terrorism. The goal is to 1. coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens 2. discriminate against minorities using big words and supposed "victims" as tools and props.

Just to clarify: do you think that this is being put through intentionally by people who're organized together with hidden evil plan?

You seem to imply that for you anything of the sort is X-files worthy material.

To "coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens" you just need some groups hell-bent on the protestant WASP ideals that "made america great". Then you can also have some opportunists that play those cards because they make a living out of it (e.g. appealing to a conservative audience), and so on.

So it is indeed "put through intentionally by people who're organized together".

Do they have "hidden evil plans" related to their bigger plan?

All the time.

Not all of them together, but groups here and there, conspire all the time (in the sense that doing something shady and unknown to the public to further their cause).

Like for example people were openly racist in the South in the sixties, but teams of "community leaders" and such could also conspire to bring forward some hidden evil plan related to the cause (e.g. lynch someone or burn some crosses and beat up some militant blacks or pro-black people to put them "in their place"). They didn't do those things openly. But they did it for the same cause they were openly in favor of.

A similar "orchestrated evil plan" e.g. would be a "character assassination" of some person on the other ideological side. You get some dirt on them, have various friends in the media push it, etc.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#42

Post by snowpanda »

igor_filippov wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current president is at a minimum guilty of multiple cases of sexual assault. Rich people do not only not have to deal with it, they are next to untouchable.

Wait what? Isn't he innocent until proven otherwise?

Not for people that can't get over the election results.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#43

Post by Trundle »

Retric wrote: post #40
tehlike wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For immigration, it could make sense, at least in a utilitarian sense. You are trying to eliminate false-negatives, and checking criminal background (in other countries) is one way to do that. Now, many countries (esp. developing ones) people get imprisoned for expressing their thoughts (which is a shame), but whether USA would/should care about this or not is a different question. USA has a quota on how many immigra…

This assumes the 'best' people are least likely to get arrested. I reject that idea as pushing boundaries is very common among the most intellectually gifted.

Why said anything about intellectually gifted? He said best.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#44

Post by ceejayoz »

rimliu wrote: post #25
sersi wrote: post #12

In the fight against the great boogeymen of Terrorism and Sex Predation, the US has lost common sense. As a kid, when I was 8 years old, I played doctor with my neighbor, we we were both curious about each others differences and so we explored them. So, if I read this article, if this had been in the US, we could have been tried as sex offenders? How does this even make sense? Of course kids are curious about body di…

The most fucked-up case I've heard of was a teen being persecuted as adult for taking the nude picture of self.

Lest someone accuse you of exaggerating: http://www.pressherald.com/2015/09/24/teen-sexting-case-high...

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#45

Post by stagbeetle »

Retric wrote: post #40
tehlike wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For immigration, it could make sense, at least in a utilitarian sense. You are trying to eliminate false-negatives, and checking criminal background (in other countries) is one way to do that. Now, many countries (esp. developing ones) people get imprisoned for expressing their thoughts (which is a shame), but whether USA would/should care about this or not is a different question. USA has a quota on how many immigra…

This assumes the 'best' people are least likely to get arrested. I reject that idea as pushing boundaries is very common among the most intellectually gifted.

In the same vein, you could say that the intellectually gifted wouldn't have gotten arrested in the first place, but pushed the boundaries to just before the tipping point.

It could be a sign of recklessness and an inability to mesh with society.

But, arguing over this is useless. The majority of the people who've been arrested are not the "best" people. They are usually from low socioeconomic backgrounds[0], i.e usually not as educated.

We can also ignore this point entirely. A large part of the American population sees criminals as life-criminals, i.e do it once and you'll do it every chance you get. It doesn't matter what the minority thinks on this issue. As long as the majority believes this is "right" it will prevail. As will the democratic process, for better or worse.

The topic that should be discussed, is how would one go about educating the public on this issue. Is it possible to go the route of the Scandinavian system?

[0]https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/income.html

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#46

Post by stagbeetle »

golergka wrote: post #18
bambax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". The goal is not to fight so-called sex-crimes or terrorism. The goal is to 1. coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens 2. discriminate against minorities using big words and supposed "victims" as tools and props.

Just to clarify: do you think that this is being put through intentionally by people who're organized together with hidden evil plan?

Many people with similar ideas all working independently to push their agendas can mimic the collective effect of a conscious and planned conspiracy.

People don't have evil plans, only selfish ones.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#47

Post by rayiner »

forvelin wrote: post #20
buro9 wrote: post #10

From everything I've ever read, there is no concept of rehabilitation in the USA. If you have ever been convicted, or even accused, of a felony or sexual crime in the USA then life as you knew it was over. The concept of being able to pay a debt to society and for that to settle the books, and to then allow those people to return to society and contribute value again... is alien to America. The problem starts with th…

Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...

Probably not. Stuff like getting rid of parole preceded private prisons. Private prisons is a trailing phenomenon that appears to be more about serving the huge demand for prison beds created by retributive policies.

Washington State, for example still has no private prisons. But it enacted one of the country's early "three strikes laws" back in the early 1990s. Private prison companies have been clamoring to get an opportunity to enter the state, but they had nothing to do with the tough laws that caused the existing public prisons to be at 140% capacity.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#48

Post by stagbeetle »

gillianlish wrote: post #28

lets be clear. rich people do not have to deal with this. denny hastert rapes a bunch of people and is still thought of as a good guy by the powerful and wealthy. how many more like him are protected? catholic church institutionalizes criminal sexual abuse but nobody in management goes to prison. corey feldman knows who raped him but cannot say it because that person has too much money and power in hollywood. hedge f…

This is strawmanning and hyperbole.

Hastert "cannot be prosecuted for sexual abuse because the statute of limitations has expired for his conduct decades earlier."[0]

This also goes against the ethos of the article. Hastert apologized (although this cannot make up for heinous deeds) for his conduct and showed regret. If we believe for the sake of argument that he is truly sorrowful and wants to turn over a new leaf, who are you to deny him this?

The "rich" and "powerful" and "politicians, CEOs, cops, bankers, all those people who routinely rape kids and get away with it" are not the bogeyman you make them out to be. They are people with problems just like the rest of us. Some of them just have better lawyers.

[0]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-why-the-s...

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#49

Post by jacquesm »

igor_filippov wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current president is at a minimum guilty of multiple cases of sexual assault. Rich people do not only not have to deal with it, they are next to untouchable.

Wait what? Isn't he innocent until proven otherwise?

He pretty much admitted it himself, what else do you want? Or do you feel that because he lies all the time we should not believe him at all, even when he incriminates himself?

I'm fairly confident in declaring Trump guilty of that, this is not a court of law, it's an internet forum and the standards for both are different. In fact, the standards of proof for criminal law are different from those for civil law (see OJ), and I think it's a bit much to require the standard of proof for criminal law to apply to a forum discussion for someone who is on the record as stating the does exactly that which others claim he did to them.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#50

Post by ending »

rayiner wrote: post #47
forvelin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...

Probably not. Stuff like getting rid of parole preceded private prisons. Private prisons is a trailing phenomenon that appears to be more about serving the huge demand for prison beds created by retributive policies. Washington State, for example still has no private prisons. But it enacted one of the country's early "three strikes laws" back in the early 1990s. Private prison companies have been clamoring to get an…

It's also worth considering that private prisons, once established, create perverse incentives to intensify those same retributive policies. A vicious recursion.
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