Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#331

Post by Mithaldu » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 11:53 AM UTC

Meph504 wrote: post #330

Mithaldu wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one: There is no lack of control. I don't know about Home, but from Pro and up you have full and fine-grained control available if you use the correct APIs. For the other: This is primarily a shift in their philosophy of considering every user someone who would happily endanger the entire internet for their convenience. If you're not the type of person to have received notification of this change as part of your…

Might want to check that, anniversary update simple made many of the previous group policy functions, and API calls, only functional on educational and enterprise versions.

Nope, i'm using them on an up-to-date pro version. They work.

A lot of that is also misreporting and half truths by journos who don't give a damn about anything but being the first to get the clicks with the most exciting headline. For example the group policy update configuration was changed with the anniversary update to not reflect in the user update ui, but still works perfectly fine and is still reflected in the group policy ui.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#332

Post by hueving » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 12:05 PM UTC

cube2222 wrote: post #220

frik wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a MSFT employee: Provide a proof that Win10 is not sending home the data I mentioned. Oh wait, it has been documented by third parties. Win10 has a whitelist in the signed 64bit kernel mode network driver, so you can't stop it except by putting a hardware firewall in front of your Win10 box - good luck with your Win10 notebook. If an app sends home metrics, it can be stopped with a software firewall. If you can't…

I haven't denied the metrics. But please provide proof of it sending home non-anonymus data the kind you mentioned. Also, as I said, it should be possible to turn it off soon.

Unless the metrics are sent over tor, they aren't really anonymous. How many times have companies claimed they've anonymized data only to find out it was trivial to correlate it with something else?

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#333

Post by clouddrover » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 12:28 PM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #317

clouddrover wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/discusses-a...

They're not "blocking" updates, they've stopped writing and compiling them with the backwards compatibility shims that made them work on older hardware. They probably do this because it drives updates AND because it's cheaper, but please try to describe it accurately.

> they've stopped writing and compiling them with the backwards compatibility shims that made them work on older hardware

That claim doesn't stack up. Windows 10, for example, works fine on older hardware. As Microsoft said, they're blocking updates to Windows 7 and 8 if you try to run those OSes on newer hardware.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#334

Post by criddell » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #82

criddell wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps the OS around it doesn't matter Of course it doesn't matter. Windows, macOS, and Linux are all good enough. More than ever, you pick the operating system and hardware to support the applications you want to run.

Well, okay. The tools I use will work on all these operating systems, but I wouldn't consider windows or OSX 'good enough' for me. I suspect most developers could get their stacks to work on everything from freebsd to windows (well, unless you're a .net dev) -- so that's not really the reason to pick one or the other? I don't run linux becuase 'vim' works better than it does on opensolaris... right?

I'm guessing we don't really disagree on this.

You are right about vim. It works well everywhere, so that's not likely to be the application that dictates what the rest of your system is. If you use vim and play a lot of Call of Duty, then you are probably going to use Windows. If you use vim and absolutely depend on Final Cut Pro, you're going to be on a Mac.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#335

Post by Arizhel » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

sova wrote: post #128

grawlinson wrote: post #2

Here's a better idea - show Microsoft that you don't accept this type of behaviour by switching products/services. I'm aware that Windows 10 is a "free" OS, but trying to ram this type of behaviour down my throat is despicable unethical behaviour and I don't condone it. It is why I've switched to Linux for my daily computing needs.

I know right?! How horrendously vile! "Hey, I know it wasn't clear that the consumer was actually the product before, so let's cut to the chase and let you know that you're really just an advertising-consuming-biological machine." How painfully and uncouthly reductive. Making your products skip the whole "getting infected by Malware before they show you advertisements all the time" is not the solution to making money…

Sinking ship? Microsoft's financials are quite solid. And just look at the comments here in this thread, on "Hacker News", a site you think would be full of techies: they're mostly advocating sticking with Windows. How on Earth is Microsoft a "sinking ship"? Apple's laptops, by contrast, are the ones that seem to be going downhill, with that company concentrating on its mobile phones. Where are all the Windows users going to go? Not to Apple, and apparently not to Linux either judging by the marketshare numbers and comments here.

Microsoft is doing exactly the right thing here, loading up their OS with spyware and adware to make money from their users. I see nothing at all wrong with them abusing users as much as they want, with forced reboots, forced ads, poorly-QAed driver updates causing system malfunctions, etc. Their customers have proven over and over and over that they will not abandon the Windows platform no matter what, so it's perfectly sensible for Microsoft to exploit this for monetary gain. And given that the techies on sites like this are generally libertarian, anyone who complains about MS's behavior is most likely a hypocrite.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#336

Post by Arizhel » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #227

bradgessler wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux isn't entirely immune to this. Ubuntu had Amazon search integration https://www.howtogeek.com/188589/5-things-you-need-to-know-a... A while back. Not sure where that stands today. Firefox was paid by Google in the past and I believe Yahoo these days. macOS had a connection with Bing in Spotlight. The current incarnation is just a dog with different fleas.

> Linux isn't entirely immune to this. Ubuntu had Amazon search integration https://www.howtogeek.com/188589/5-things-you-need-to-know-a... . A while back. Not sure where that stands today. This is the most relevant of your 3 examples and Canonical got heavily criticised for it. They ended up reversing their decision. Which makes it all the more important that people take this example not as " It's ok for Microsoft t…

Canonical didn't just get criticized for the Amazon search integration: a bunch of users jumped ship to other distros, especially Mint (which is basically Ubuntu + other DEs on top).

There's a good and simple lesson here: if you don't like a company's behavior, you need to be willing to jump ship. If you're not, then your complaints are futile and useless. Why should the company listen to you if you're not going to abandon them?

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#337

Post by Arizhel » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 7:11 PM UTC

funkyy wrote: post #286

Funny that Satya Nadella is praised on HN for his business sense and revolutionary thinking, yet when something like this happens, no one seems to remember about him. He is a CEO, it's his signature that allows this. Think about all Windows 10 spying, stupid updates policy etc. next time you praise him.

I don't understand your problem: the Windows 10 spying, "stupid" updates policy, etc., are all good examples of Nadella's excellent business sense and revolutionary thinking. He's finally cast off this obsolete, idiotic thinking about not pissing off your customers, and realizes that Windows users aren't going to switch to another OS no matter what, so it makes perfect business sense to milk them for every penny they're worth with ads, spying, forced updates, etc. He's doing an excellent job, though personally I think he could do even better (though it'll make Windows users even more unhappy, but that's their problem).

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#338

Post by TylerH » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #157

paulddraper wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great. Here's why most people don't: they like editing Word documents, using Bluetooth, playing AAA games, printing and scanning, connecting to external monitors, watching DVDs, and transferring files from their phones.

>they like editing Word documents LibreOffice supports this and it works quite well. I would guess most people prefer google drive these days, though. >using Bluetooth Do you actually know anyone non-technical who has used bluetooth at all in the past 5 years? Or technical for that matter, I've used bluetooth maybe 3 times in that time frame and always had no issues on Linux. >playing AAA games This is your only legi…

Bluetooth is massively popular among millennials who enjoy listening to music streaming from their phone on wireless speakers, in cars, etc.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#339

Post by Arizhel » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 8:30 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #65

Klathmon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how much this story has blown up, along with the "Google home has ads" story. In both cases they seem almost insane how many people are up in arms about this. It's them pushing a service of theirs in their os. Apple does it, Google does it, Ubuntu does it, everyone does it. And it's such a non issue. They are promoting a service that is very tied in to the OS that a lot of people want and don't know exis…

You think it's not a big deal that you pay microsoft $119 for an OS and they're injecting ads into the local file browser? How are those being targetted? Ads on sites and apps -- yeah okay. We got to pay the rent for the content we're viewing.. Ads baked into the OS, especially one you'be paid for, is disturbing.. For me anyway.. I've not used windows in a long time, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the way they've be…

>Ads baked into the OS, especially one you'be paid for, is disturbing.. For me anyway..

Better get used to it; that's how people think these days. Just look at some of the other messages here that say "it's no big deal". Face it: people today are perfectly happy to be advertised to, even when they're paying money for it. And it's nothing new. Just look at cable TV: it was billed as being "commercial free" pay TV when it first came out, but it didn't take too long before they put the commercials back in. Did people abandon it? Nope. It's still highly profitable, and only recently having some problems with "cord cutters", which was caused not by the commercials alone, but rather by the availability of internet services and the general loss of interest in TV due to other interests (using the internet, video games, etc.). But for 30+ years, people have been perfectly happy to pay for cable TV and then watch the ads on it.

>Don't stand for this shit. Even if we don't, though, it won't make much of a difference since we're the minority who can even understand what's happening...

That's the problem. A few techies switching to Linux at home isn't going to make much difference. More importantly than anything, all the businesses are sticking with it, all the software ISVs are sticking with it, and most of the consumers are sticking with it.

Re: Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off

#340

Post by Arizhel » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 8:41 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #77

cyberpunk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it's not a big deal that you pay microsoft $119 for an OS and they're injecting ads into the local file browser? How are those being targetted? Ads on sites and apps -- yeah okay. We got to pay the rent for the content we're viewing.. Ads baked into the OS, especially one you'be paid for, is disturbing.. For me anyway.. I've not used windows in a long time, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the way they've be…

I guess I just don't think of it as an ad. Just like how Apple pushes their cloud storage, Google pushes drive, even Foss software pushes or bumps other complementary packages. They are being "targeted" because you are already running the software, so if it's saving your shit to a paid account, just hide it, if it's not then show it. No tracking or nefarious stuff needed. If they were really truly putting ads in exp…

>even Foss software pushes or bumps other complementary packages.

Citation needed. If you're talking about Ubuntu, that does not represent all FOSS software just like Oracle does not represent all proprietary software; there's many other Linux distros out there, and there's lots of FOSS software which is not a distro. And if they're just notifying you about other FOSS software (with emphasis on the 'F'), that's rather different than a proprietary vendor which is trying to get you to spend your money on something else from them. Telling people about something they can go get for free is not the same as telling people about something they need to spend $$$$ to get.

MS's cloud storage (and Apple's too) is what's called an "upsell". It's one thing for a vendor to try it when you're already talking to a salesperson, like car dealerships do by trying to sell you overpriced accessories. It's quite another for a vendor to try it when you're using the product you've already purchased. If I were car-shopping and I looked at a car that openly advertised overpriced accessories to you while you were driving, that would be unacceptable, and I would not buy the car.

However, given how many people are perfectly OK with this kind of thing, and given how many cars have big-screen "infotainment" systems installed now, I'm actually surprised no car companies have tried forcing in-car advertising to make more money. Sure, they'd piss off some people, who would then buy other cars, but there's obviously plenty of consumers who will happily go along with this, especially if they're told (even if it's a lie) that this allows the carmaker to sell the car to them at a lower price. I could definitely see GM adopting this; their buyers are already perfectly happy to be tracked with OnStar.