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The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

newyorker.com

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Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#21

Post by CamTin »

golergka wrote: post #18
bambax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". The goal is not to fight so-called sex-crimes or terrorism. The goal is to 1. coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens 2. discriminate against minorities using big words and supposed "victims" as tools and props.

Just to clarify: do you think that this is being put through intentionally by people who're organized together with hidden evil plan?

There doesn't necessarily need to be a literal conspiracy in order for the intended effects of laws to be completely bogus. For example, I think we can all agree that poll taxes were intended to keep southern black Americans from voting, even though I doubt there was ever a "Jim Crow Caucus" of lawmakers from Southern states to decide on the best policy objectives to further their racist agenda.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#22

Post by DarkKomunalec »

gigatexal wrote: post #8
pluma wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if prisons did more than just house inmates The problem is that the US system in particular is obsessed with punishment alone. Yes, sure, sometimes the punishment is justified as a learning experience but it's entirely based on the idea that punishment alone is sufficient to teach and act as a deterrent to others. Considering mental health (especially for the poor) is fairly neglected as a public health issue in th…

I agree. Though perhaps the Victorian / puritan morality that underlies American history won't let us move on from punishment to rehab.

I'm not sure punishment vs rehabilitation is the cause for support of such a cruel system. I myself am in favour of punishment in addition to rehabilitation, up to an eye for an eye (as it was originaly used - to limit retaliation) for serious crimes. But even to me the US law system seems way too harsh on the accused, in both establishing guilt and assigning punishment, so I don't really know what drives others to support it.

Perhaps they hear of a few over-lenient sentences, or of someone getting away with it without a conviction, and in response vote to raise the severity for everyone?

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#23

Post by buro9 »

forvelin wrote: post #20
buro9 wrote: post #10

From everything I've ever read, there is no concept of rehabilitation in the USA. If you have ever been convicted, or even accused, of a felony or sexual crime in the USA then life as you knew it was over. The concept of being able to pay a debt to society and for that to settle the books, and to then allow those people to return to society and contribute value again... is alien to America. The problem starts with th…

Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...

It is bigger and deeper than just that.

I've even seen comments on here regarding immigration that simply said if someone has ever been arrested then they shouldn't be allowed into the USA. (No qualifying statements on recency or severity, or even acquittal.)

With regards to crime (including the mere accusation of sexual things) the sentiment of the USA runs counter to the aspiration and promise of social mobility of the USA.

Yes others profit from maintaining the status quo, but worse is that people are judged for life, based on a single incident in their past. And as the article points out, the zero tolerance amplifies the destructive nature of a society that judges.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#24

Post by Latty »

mritun wrote: post #3

That a society is fine with incarcerating 9 (NINE!) year old kids is disturbing... but, I am haunted by the thoughts that a society on earth incarcerated ten year old kids for non-violent acts in the name of zero tolerance. Zero tolerance for kids!! They don't understand the damn /meaning/ of that word for god's sake!

We must protect children from having their lives ruined!

We shall do that by ruining their lives!

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#25

Post by rimliu »

sersi wrote: post #12

In the fight against the great boogeymen of Terrorism and Sex Predation, the US has lost common sense. As a kid, when I was 8 years old, I played doctor with my neighbor, we we were both curious about each others differences and so we explored them. So, if I read this article, if this had been in the US, we could have been tried as sex offenders? How does this even make sense? Of course kids are curious about body di…

The most fucked-up case I've heard of was a teen being persecuted as adult for taking the nude picture of self.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#26

Post by lb1lf »

gigatexal wrote: post #13
lb1lf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. In Norway (heck, in Scandinavia, and, is my impression, in most of North/Central Europe, too), there's strong focus on rehabilitation. Inmates are encouraged to pursue education while incarcerated. If you want to enter a trade, there are workshops &c in the prisons where you can do your apprenticeship. Also, in all but the (rare) cases where you are deemed to be a lasting danger to society, you are automaticall…

America is hell-bent on not being like Europe even given the good there is to learn from.

-Oh, there's no such thing as a perfect society, IMHO - but when it comes to crime and punishment, I do think the US could benefit from taking a leaf or two from our books.

However, there are a couple of key differences (still IMHO!) which makes it difficult to compare the two.

Most notably, perhaps - we do not elect judges. Nor do we elect police chiefs. The latter are positions you apply for as you would any other; the former are appointed by a non-partisan committee.

Hence, there's no benefit for representatives of the judicial and executive to be seen as tough on crime; there's no gain to be had.

As for the legislative, there's a fairly broad consensus, the odd populist aside, that sentencing (mostly) is well matched to the needs of society - so there's no strong drive to enforce harsher punishment. (And believe me, we did discuss this ad nauseum and then some after the 2011 labour party youth camp terror attack!(0))

Surely, there's a component of punishment - after all, you want to send a message to others contemplating the same crime that you need to factor jail time into your calculations - but the main focus is to ensure you don't end up behind bars again, as that would be a net loss both to you, the future victims and society at large.

(0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#27

Post by paulajohnson »

forvelin wrote: post #20
buro9 wrote: post #10

From everything I've ever read, there is no concept of rehabilitation in the USA. If you have ever been convicted, or even accused, of a felony or sexual crime in the USA then life as you knew it was over. The concept of being able to pay a debt to society and for that to settle the books, and to then allow those people to return to society and contribute value again... is alien to America. The problem starts with th…

Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...

I think thats got a lot to do with it. Google "prison lobby" for a range of articles on the problem. The same companies also pay for public campaigns that talk up the danger from crime, as that makes people vote for punitive restrictions that keep the money rolling in.

Those politicians who say "If I act on this I'll lose the next election" do so exactly because they know what the private prison industry can do to them.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#28

Post by gillianlish »

lets be clear. rich people do not have to deal with this. denny hastert rapes a bunch of people and is still thought of as a good guy by the powerful and wealthy. how many more like him are protected? catholic church institutionalizes criminal sexual abuse but nobody in management goes to prison. corey feldman knows who raped him but cannot say it because that person has too much money and power in hollywood. hedge fund managers go to thailand and fuck child prostitutes but they come back here and invest in private prisons that make money putting kids in lockup for playing doctor.

some teenager sends a nude pic and get years in prison.

welcome to 'freedom'

i actually support the 'crackdown on sex crimes'... if it went after actual criminals!!!! politicians, CEOs, cops, bankers, all those people who routinely rape kids and get away with it.

but as usual, it just is a way for the rich to enslave the poor, extract money from them, abuse them, and discard them.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#29

Post by rimliu »

gigatexal wrote: post #4

Well if the predilection towards pedophilia could be managed or "cured" and if prisons did more than just house inmates I.e if they worked on rehab instead of punishment then perhaps the lifetime listings wouldn't be necessary. I won't begin to insinuate that I have the right balance between parents wanting to be cautious with who their kids interact with and the belief that people can change for the better. And then…

    > Well if the predilection towards pedophilia could
    > be managed or "cured"
And what if not? If these people did not deliberately chose whom they are attracted to any more than gays did, they are in a really really sad place.

Re: The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

#30

Post by tehlike »

buro9 wrote: post #23
forvelin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...

It is bigger and deeper than just that. I've even seen comments on here regarding immigration that simply said if someone has ever been arrested then they shouldn't be allowed into the USA. (No qualifying statements on recency or severity, or even acquittal.) With regards to crime (including the mere accusation of sexual things) the sentiment of the USA runs counter to the aspiration and promise of social mobility of…

For immigration, it could make sense, at least in a utilitarian sense. You are trying to eliminate false-negatives, and checking criminal background (in other countries) is one way to do that. Now, many countries (esp. developing ones) people get imprisoned for expressing their thoughts (which is a shame), but whether USA would/should care about this or not is a different question. USA has a quota on how many immigrants it will allow, and it wants the best people. There are many people that can satisfy that requirement.
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