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Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

blog.gdax.com

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Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#51

Post by Frogolocalypse »

iopq wrote: post #47
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have. No merchants have. So if you pay by bitcoin to bpay, your china-coin isn't going to be recognized. You would need to find exchanges that recognized the china-coin tokens. 97% of nodes in the bitcoin network currently enforce the same consensus rules. As soon as bitcoin forks, they will no-longer understand, nor view, the tokens in their forked crypto-coin. You might, or might not, find someone who is willi…

I think it's around 90% use core and 10% use unlimited. There aren't that many full nodes.

The only ChinaBU nodes are living on centralized server instances, and none are actually used for bitcoin commerce. The software is unsafe. No exchange, wallet, payment processor, or user, would dare dream of using it. Which is why hundreds can disappear in the space of an hour, and re-appear 12 hours later all at once.

But to clear it up, there are thousands of nodes. By some measures, when including non-listening nodes, 10's of thousands.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#52

Post by Frogolocalypse »

zik wrote: post #42
mirimir wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, I hadn't realized that. So once BTU was created, could I just create new wallets on it, and import the keys from BTC wallets?

No, after the hard fork has settled Unlimited will simply "be" bitcoin. There's no need to change wallets. On the other hand if the current "Core" development team prevails with their much more complex "Segwit" soft fork you'll need to create new wallets to use it and you'll have to transfer your bitcoins from your old wallet to it.

Nodes define consensus in bitcoin, not miners. If china-coin miners try to change consensus rules in the overwhelming majority of nodes that enforce bitcoin consensus rules, they'll be forked off of the network.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#53

Post by Animats »

iopq wrote: post #44
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would need to find exchanges that recognized the china-coin tokens. 97% of nodes in the bitcoin network currently enforce the same consensus rules. As soon as bitcoin forks, they will no-longer understand, nor view, the tokens in their forked crypto-coin.

Exchanges confirmed they will have BTC-U and BTC-C both available if a hardfork happens. Whichever fork wins in the end will just be bitcoin.

Both forks may live on. That's what happened with Etherium. Etherium Classic is about $2, and holding relatively steady, with a market cap of $176 million. Forked Etherium (as modded to bail out the DAO) is around $50. (The market cap for Etherium is kind of fake, because the coin generation rate is very fast, and many of those coins are locked up for some period of time.)

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#54

Post by Animats »

Frogolocalypse wrote: post #52
zik wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, after the hard fork has settled Unlimited will simply "be" bitcoin. There's no need to change wallets. On the other hand if the current "Core" development team prevails with their much more complex "Segwit" soft fork you'll need to create new wallets to use it and you'll have to transfer your bitcoins from your old wallet to it.

Nodes define consensus in bitcoin, not miners. If china-coin miners try to change consensus rules in the overwhelming majority of nodes that enforce bitcoin consensus rules, they'll be forked off of the network.

This is a form of wishful thinking. Miners, and only miners, determine what goes onto a blockchain. Non-mining nodes are just database replication slaves and message forwarders. Unless you're a miner, your node doesn't matter.

Who will buy and sell an altcoin does matter. That's where liquidity and prices come from. But that's independent of who is running a node.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#55

Post by Frogolocalypse »

Animats wrote: post #54
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nodes define consensus in bitcoin, not miners. If china-coin miners try to change consensus rules in the overwhelming majority of nodes that enforce bitcoin consensus rules, they'll be forked off of the network.

This is a form of wishful thinking. Miners, and only miners, determine what goes onto a blockchain. Non-mining nodes are just database replication slaves and message forwarders. Unless you're a miner, your node doesn't matter. Who will buy and sell an altcoin does matter. That's where liquidity and prices come from. But that's independent of who is running a node.

Miners have absolutely zero say on what goes into the blockchain. That's what nodes do.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_%28computer_science%...

> A fundamental problem in distributed computing and multi-agent systems is to achieve overall system reliability in the presence of a number of faulty processes. This often requires processes to agree on some data value that is needed during computation. Examples of applications of consensus include whether to commit a transaction to a database (or, for example, committing blocks to a blockchain), agreeing on the identity of a leader, state machine replication, and atomic broadcasts. The real world applications include clock synchronization, PageRank, opinion formation, smart power grids, state estimation, control of UAVs, load balancing and others.

Nodes are the agents.

> Satoshi from the Bitcoin White-paper : The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism.

Nodes are agents in a multi-agent system with an agreed set of consensus rules that ensure that the system functions. Transactions are propagated through the multi-agent network based upon the agreed consensus rules by nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. Miners retrieve valid transactions from any of these nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. They then order the transactions, and perform a hashing function on them until the hashing function returns a value that is suitable to the nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. They then pass the new block that they've created to the nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. The nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system, then validate the block to ensure that each of the transactions within the block agree with the consensus rules. They then pass the new block, if it is valid, to other nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. Then each of these other nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system, each do the same validation on every block.

You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of how bitcoin works.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#56

Post by xiphias »

canistr wrote: post #43

So does this mean we need to stop trading BTC on GDAX until Coinbase considers the issue resolved after the fork? What if we haven't touched the BTC on GDAX in a while? Wouldn't those chains still exist post-fork? They left a bit of ambiguity in there specifying that we should move BTC out if we want access to both Unlimited and Core. But I'm unclear what to do since it doesn't matter to me either way. I just don't w…

Actually it doesn't look like an ambiguity: they select a winner chain (hopefully the one with the higher price) and keep the money that's on the other chain. I don't think that this is a good strategy for an exchange, but it's their choice.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#57

Post by iopq »

Frogolocalypse wrote: post #51
iopq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's around 90% use core and 10% use unlimited. There aren't that many full nodes.

The only ChinaBU nodes are living on centralized server instances, and none are actually used for bitcoin commerce. The software is unsafe. No exchange, wallet, payment processor, or user, would dare dream of using it. Which is why hundreds can disappear in the space of an hour, and re-appear 12 hours later all at once. But to clear it up, there are thousands of nodes. By some measures, when including non-listening n…

I'm running a full BTC Unlimited node right now.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#58

Post by Frogolocalypse »

iopq wrote: post #57
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only ChinaBU nodes are living on centralized server instances, and none are actually used for bitcoin commerce. The software is unsafe. No exchange, wallet, payment processor, or user, would dare dream of using it. Which is why hundreds can disappear in the space of an hour, and re-appear 12 hours later all at once. But to clear it up, there are thousands of nodes. By some measures, when including non-listening n…

I'm running a full BTC Unlimited node right now.

Good for you. Let's hope the chinese exchanges eventually let you trade the china-coin you'll be holding after they fork-off.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#59

Post by bhaak »

Animats wrote: post #53
iopq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchanges confirmed they will have BTC-U and BTC-C both available if a hardfork happens. Whichever fork wins in the end will just be bitcoin.

Both forks may live on. That's what happened with Etherium. Etherium Classic is about $2, and holding relatively steady, with a market cap of $176 million. Forked Etherium (as modded to bail out the DAO) is around $50. (The market cap for Etherium is kind of fake, because the coin generation rate is very fast, and many of those coins are locked up for some period of time.)

Although the difficulty adjustments in Bitcoin are much slower than in Ethereum.

The chain with the smaller hash rate is unlikely to be functional for a long time (unless new miners step up but this would be a tremendous investment).

This is by design as this makes it economically unfeasible to fork the chain and suddenly have twice the amount of coins.

Re: Update for Customers with Bitcoin Stored on GDAX

#60

Post by elastic_church »

ubercow wrote: post #3

For someone who isn't "in the know" when it comes to Bitcoin, what is Bitcoin Unlimited and what does it mean for the average user?

It is just one of several software clients on the bitcoin network. All of the clients have their own features that activate once they are used by a majority of the networks miners and sometimes majority of other users.

Bitcoin Unlimited's proposals are on track to being activated and this is the first time a client not released by the incumbent development party is gaining use.

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