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Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

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Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#161

Post by cube2222 »

kuschku wrote: post #157
unscaled wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you exaggerate. Consul is probably the go-to discovery service discovery for new projects at startups and tech companies that aren't afraid of the bleeding edge, but if you count installed base and less bleeding-edge companies ZooKeeper probably still reigns supreme.

Definitely. And while ZooKeeper is common, (and apparently Consul is now the hot new thing, I guess?), many places also build their own systems. I wouldn’t call Consul "industry-dominating technology", as you’d do with ElasticSearch, Hadoop, Spark, etc.

I'd call Spark a much more bleeding edge product than Consul. And no, it's not the hot new thing at all. It's just a standard tool.

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#163

Post by jwdunne »

coldtea wrote: post #121
manmal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stoicism for programming. Accept what you cannot change (tools, language), and focus on what you can change (attitude, striving for great solutions).

> Accept what you cannot change Only you can easily change languages... Stoicism was referring to actual things one cannot change. Like, say, death, or their status as a roman slave. So it's less stoicism and more "our way or the highway".

Much more fundamental is the idea that suffering itself is an unchangeable fact of life. This, I think, is what makes it so similar to Buddhism. Inact, suffering is a necessary contrast to bliss and one can induce bliss via temporary​ self-induced periods of bliss.

Perhaps then the stoic lesson is we should write some machine code from time to time to really enjoy the benefits of anything above. Or, to relate, writing a bit of Go for some time when you mostly write Haskell.

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#164

Post by unscaled »

kuschku wrote: post #157
unscaled wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you exaggerate. Consul is probably the go-to discovery service discovery for new projects at startups and tech companies that aren't afraid of the bleeding edge, but if you count installed base and less bleeding-edge companies ZooKeeper probably still reigns supreme.

Definitely. And while ZooKeeper is common, (and apparently Consul is now the hot new thing, I guess?), many places also build their own systems. I wouldn’t call Consul "industry-dominating technology", as you’d do with ElasticSearch, Hadoop, Spark, etc.

And the funny part is that all of them are Java. :) Well, except Spark which is Scala.

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#165

Post by pmarreck »

jonnybgood wrote: post #3

> Go is just too different to how I think: when I approach a programming problem, I first think about the types and abstractions that will be useful; I think about statically enforcing behaviour I see statements like this a lot from Haskellers and I think its overstated. Anecdotally, after going from Python to spending 3-4 years in Haskell then going back to a dynamic language (Elixir) I've come to the conclusion tha…

> I stopped thinking in Haskell and started thinking in Elixir.

https://youtu.be/yyzK6e6py9A?t=7

Seriously though, I think Elixir (with its guards and pattern-matching facilities) occupies a nice middle ground between strict static typing and the dynamic typing of procedural/OO langs.

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#166

Post by kuschku »

unscaled wrote: post #164
kuschku wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. And while ZooKeeper is common, (and apparently Consul is now the hot new thing, I guess?), many places also build their own systems. I wouldn’t call Consul "industry-dominating technology", as you’d do with ElasticSearch, Hadoop, Spark, etc.

And the funny part is that all of them are Java. :) Well, except Spark which is Scala.

Yes, exactly. In a list of most important tools out there, Go only turns up for a few tasks that used to be done in C++, as layer between the OS and services.

Almost everywhere else, it’s not "industry-dominating" at all, so I’m not sure why people use the argument "go is used everywhere and everything is in go" (which is obviously false) to argue that go is a good language.

(besides, C is actually used everywhere, but no one would use that as argument to show how C is a good language).

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#167

Post by Elrac »

matwood wrote: post #87
cube2222 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that it doesn't. I meant smaller parts of code, and not for loops actually. (I prefer maps, filters etc.). Things like gofmt and the simplicity (in that, small number of concepts) of the language lead to most people writing fairly idiomatic code. This way most codebases look the same and you read each other's code as it were yours.

I'm just getting into Go and have found what you said to be true. It's easy to read other people's code on GH (Java is much the same way). Compare that to something like Scala, where no ones code looks the same.

I'd like to echo what you said. I tend to be a victim of analysis paralysis, spending hours thinking up the most clever design. Go offers far fewer alternatives so there goes the temptation. Given a smallish task, I simply sit down and grind out code, and a couple of thousand lines later I have a simple, self-contained executable that does what I wanted to do. I feel there's a kind of magic in Go's brute simplicity.

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#168

Post by pmarreck »

jrobn wrote: post #49

I started out liking Go. It looked like a fairly pragmatic language. As I got deeper into my evaluation project (simple api stuff) it felt more and more like cutting wood with a dull saw. I started out liking Haskell too! But has I moved along with my small evaluation api project it felt more and more like I was trying to cut wood with gyroscopic laser saw. It worked but it was a lot of fan fair for sawing some wood.…

i had to google "japanese pull saw"

but as someone striking out into the elixir camp/world, this is also what I'm seeing

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#169

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

wtetzner wrote: post #140
woah wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite its checkered past, isn't php these days a more powerful language than ruby?

That's the first time I think I've heard that. I've heard many times that PHP is much better than it used to be, but in what ways is it more powerful than Ruby?

One nice feature is that it is optionally typed (php 5.6 had this for classes and arrays php 7 added support for specifying primitive types.)

Also, the newer parts of the language such as the object system and the presence of closures and first class functions are almost pleasant to work with: for the most part, the annoyances come from the old stuff

Re: Three Months of Go, from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016)

#170

Post by pmarreck »

bad_user wrote: post #11
jonnybgood wrote: post #3

> Go is just too different to how I think: when I approach a programming problem, I first think about the types and abstractions that will be useful; I think about statically enforcing behaviour I see statements like this a lot from Haskellers and I think its overstated. Anecdotally, after going from Python to spending 3-4 years in Haskell then going back to a dynamic language (Elixir) I've come to the conclusion tha…

I cannot speak for Elixir, but coming from the Erlang world, I'm sure it's a fine language that has sane defaults, much like Clojure. However I switched from Python to Scala and besides the performance issues and the poor handling of async I/O that I had with Python, by far the biggest problem with Python was all the insecurity while developing with it. It drove me insane, because we had a production system that alwa…

Scala, where code you've written 6 months ago really does look like hieroglyphics to you or to anyone else right now who doesn't know Scala intimately ;)

I would agree that the Elixir community is currently very homogeneous and therefore very pleasant. To some extent, that is true of many new langs and their early communities. I disagree that this is a premature strike against it. I say enjoy it (and work within it) while it lasts, if you can.

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