Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone in establishment media wrote with such contempt for any aggrieved minority in the US, for instance the millions of black Americians that destroy themselves, their families and their communities with drugs, alcohol and aggressive anti-intellectualism, they'd be drummed out of the elite bubble as 'racist.' But you can shit on white trash if you want; the Internet will cite your hate for years when you single…
I'm not insulting anyone. I'm pointing out that the intellectual house-organ of the Republican Party is insulting people.
Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
101–109 of 109 posts
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.
So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? To be honest, no. Those don't count because most of the people who consider themselves to be the "working class" would be hurt by several of them. A skilled tradesman who is making the equivalent of $25/hr doesn't want the min…
It's weird how true this is. The ACA is the one thing that has accomplished the following : there was public talk on the streets about how democrats/Obama suck several times due to the ACA :
the two weeks when employer contribution became effective
then when the plans got changed in California and people had to choose
and finally when the plans were adjusted
In a lot of other places the employer mandate (which cause quite a few people to lose their jobs because their employer was forced to fire them, esp. in small businesses) mattered more. But Obamacare and the incredible cost increases it brought for everyone should be looked at as a failure.
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? how about lowering taxes? how about enforcing legal immigration so that working class people stand a chance of getting a job?
> how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. > how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? Deregulation of what exactly? What's the regulation that's prohibiting "hiring more people"? > how about lowering t…
> This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1].
So your message to flyover America is to just give up ? Good luck with that. This is a problem. It needs a solution. Let's stop complaining about how it's unsolvable and change it.
And let's face facts here : an import tariff on everything (like every country except the US has, mostly) will help. Finding policies that will help do this is pretty easy.
There needs to be a solution for jobs and economic activity in flyover America. A solution different from calling them white trash racists and abandoning them.
> Deregulation of what exactly? What's the regulation that's prohibiting "hiring more people"?
Are you joking ? Let's take everyone's favorite regulation : the ACA. The ACA is making it much more expensive to hire more people, and thereby preventing people getting hired to a certain extent. Raising minimum wage, same thing.
> On who/what? Citizens? Corporations? What's fair? How do you increase military spending, then, if you lower taxes and are already slashing other budgets?
You slash other budgets more.
> Can you provide examples of un-enforcement? As I understand it, most illegal immigration comes from people who immigrate legally on a green card that expires and just don't leave.[3]
Some 12 million immigrants are illegal aliens. That's half a percent of the population, and 12 million enforcement failures. Furthermore, legal immigration can be reduced as well.
Note that this isn't racist, or even anti-immigration. The goal is not to be anti-immigrant. The goal is to protect the status of the working class by lowering supply in the labor market. Despite the unemployment figures (which is really only everyone who lost a job in the past 12 weeks), there is a massive job shortage in many parts of the US.
Will this make cleaning silicon valley toilets more difficult and expensive ? Yes. That's good.
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that square with the millions more votes Hillary won? It is really bizarre. She's said to be an awful politician, yet won the popular vote in '08, and in '16 during the primaries and general.
The DNC excluded independent voters in several states during primaries, independent voters they needed to win the general. The voters she won in the primary were not the voters she needed to win. Oops. EDIT: @akhilcacharya: Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose.
If they want a say, they are free to register with a party to do so.
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he's saying people don't aspire to depend on entitlements.
...and it wasn't actually that difficult to pick up on either.
What would you consider a "pro-worker" agenda?
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
The DNC excluded independent voters in several states during primaries, independent voters they needed to win the general. The voters she won in the primary were not the voters she needed to win. Oops. EDIT: @akhilcacharya: Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose.
>Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose If they want a say, they are free to register with a party to do so.
Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Maybe not waste those 7 years not ruining America further for vanity?
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. > how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? Deregulation of what exactly? What's the regulation that's prohibiting "hiring more people"? > how about lowering t…
I will try to represent the opposing viewpoint here, since you ask a lot of questions. > This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. So your message to flyover America is to just give up ? Good luck with that. This is a problem. It needs a solution. Let's stop complaining abou…
>Will this make cleaning silicon valley toilets more difficult and expensive ? Yes. That's good.
If you were looking to advance the status of the working class as a final goal, there are several other things you would do first before talking about deregulation, immigration overhauls, or austerity. A short list:
* Raise taxes on the rich, and invest the money in infrastructure, schools, and civic life. You want to push up wages, you hire people directly.
* Move from the ACA to single-payer health-care. This reduces expenses on bureaucracy and bullshit all around the economy, frees people to pursue entrepreneurship, and frees people to change jobs -- all good for the working class!
* Shore up Social Security by lifting the contribution cap. People who make $120k/year are not working-class, and they can afford to pay taxes so that the working class can afford to retire in dignity. The more elderly working-class people can retire, the more jobs are freed up.
* Nationalize natural-resource extraction industries, pour the profits into the national coffers, and use those to reduce taxes and increase wages for the working-class people in those industries. This will especially help in industries where competition has pushed wages and prices to near-zero, most employers are conglomerates rather than small proprietorships, but the products remain essential. For example, farming.
* Encourage the formation of worker cooperatives over other forms of business.
* Strengthen labor unions. Revamp the Taft-Hartley Act to bring back the powers organized labor had in the mid-1930s New Deal period. Pass the Employee Free Choice Act.
* Break up all monopolies and oligopolies. This is a convenient alternative to nationalization.
* Universal overtime pay for everyone who works more than 40 hours/week, no matter their job role. If they work for a living, they get overtime pay.
Your proposals don't sound at all like they're designed to strengthen workers against management and owners. They sound like they're designed to do the opposite: strengthen owners and managers in exploiting labor as cheaply as possible.
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose If they want a say, they are free to register with a party to do so.
That's how you get 8 years of Trump. As a socialist democrat, I'm more than willing to watch the old guard slowly burn. Everyone dies of old age eventually. Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Maybe not waste those 7 years not ruining America further for vanity?
78 - 69 = 9, and anyway that may be life expectancy at birth, but at age 69 female life expectancy in the US is 17.1 years.
Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will try to represent the opposing viewpoint here, since you ask a lot of questions. > This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. So your message to flyover America is to just give up ? Good luck with that. This is a problem. It needs a solution. Let's stop complaining abou…
>Note that this isn't racist, or even anti-immigration. The goal is not to be anti-immigrant. The goal is to protect the status of the working class by lowering supply in the labor market. Despite the unemployment figures (which is really only everyone who lost a job in the past 12 weeks), there is a massive job shortage in many parts of the US. >Will this make cleaning silicon valley toilets more difficult and expen…
Coming from a country with a vastly bigger public sector than the US, allow me to say : no. Thanks. Don't do this. I'm not against public sector jobs, but I am against the government (or large companies supported by the government) taking care of anything that can realistically be done by anyone else.
> Shore up Social Security by lifting the contribution cap. People who make $120k/year are not working-class, and they can afford to pay taxes so that the working class can afford to retire in dignity. The more elderly working-class people can retire, the more jobs are freed up.
The numbers don't work. And the numbers are positively disastrous starting 10 years or so in the future. This is generally true about your raise taxes ideas.
When push comes to shove, money represents value. The only way to provide more goods and services to the elderly is to have everyone work more, produce more. Tax raises cannot affect this, in fact they make it harder.
But it would depend on what tax to raise. I think I'd most like either a direct wealth tax, or a land value tax. With serious punishments for cheating with undeclared wealth or colluding with government to lower land value. Move the tax burden away from labour.
> Strengthen labor unions. Revamp the Taft-Hartley Act to bring back the powers organized labor had in the mid-1930s New Deal period. Pass the Employee Free Choice Act.
I like the idea of strengthening unions. Sounds like a great idea.
> Break up all monopolies and oligopolies. This is a convenient alternative to nationalization.
Whilst I definitely agree in the case of Comcast, I'm not sure this would work well in general.
> Universal overtime pay for everyone who works more than 40 hours/week, no matter their job role. If they work for a living, they get overtime pay.
Sounds like a good idea, except perhaps that it's too easy to cheat rules like this.