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Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

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Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever gone as frugal as this to speak about it? And what would you suggest the "generation of fools" do otherwise? Get a 50k job at a big company and live happily ever after? Too much hate in that comment. (edit for grammar/typo)

> Have you ever gone as frugal as this to speak about it? I've been living a relatively frugal lifestyle for my entire life. Getting smart about expenses and staying that way are the surest path to financial independence. The best advice is to disconnect your expenses from your revenues. If you make $10K more per year, don't let your expenses creep up as well. Just sock it away for a rainy day. One day you'll look ba…

Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though.

Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?). I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing starting a startup vs. getting a job as a zero-sum game where it's all about dollars and cents.

The article specifically is not "romanticizing" or "endorsing" living in the closet. We are all in this life because we want a better future for ourselves and the people around us.

The reality of startups is that rent initially is your biggest cost. The author literally has one sentence about the closet/rent facts - it was the most effective way to maximize their runway.

You're statistically right that most startups "fail" but why? I've started a number of startups (only one I would consider a very small success) and I have also observed many startup around me. Very often the reason why startup fail are:

A) People/founders give up B) Running out of cash or coming too close to it after raising money and increasing burn to unnecessary levels.

One curious story here is how a startup started at $0, and initially raised $50-100k. They thought they are at the top of the world (aka "we can go on forever on this money"). They ended up raising almost $1M and within 1.5 years they burned down to $50-100k. And they gave up. In reality they could have kept going for at least 6-12 months or tried exploring options like raising more, etc, etc. Emotions are very often stronger than logic in many aspect of life, especially startups.

The big problem with "the American" (read "most of the developed world") way of living/culture is that it normalizes and in many cases strongly endorses the presumably safe path. In reality, there's no safety and nothing is guaranteed. Your safe job that you spent years in building a career can go away and unless you're in engineering I have seen cases where you're very unlikely to find similar compensation at another company. The reality is that you're much more at the mercy of forces beyond your control when you're employed somewhere that you'd like to believe. And finally, starting a company does not mean "not paying yourself" or "not saving". If your company is doing objectively well, you should be paying yourself a salary.

You also refer to the notion of a "decent idea" but there's a big problem with that adjective/noun combination. The reality is that you almost never know if it's a good idea until you truly apply yourself to the idea for an extended period of time. The initial idea will also very likely change a significant amount. Many of the stories your read in the press are the one week/month wonders but I think the majority of startups took years of hands-on work to get to the recognizable status they have today. Just to name a few, and I won't elaborate on their stories: TempleRun, Pinterest, AirBnb.

And one final thought: you present living in the closet as an absolutely terrible thing. People have endured much more strenuous circumstances and have "come back to tell the story".

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#42
post #5

> We convinced our friends in the current Y Combinator batch to let us stay in a closet at their East Palo Alto home office for $600 per month. If we spent $1,000 a month we would have 25 months of runway, which seems infinite. I'm all for frugality and cost controls, but this is ridiculous. It's things like this that brainwash a generation of fools into throwing their lives away at nonsensical ideas. I'm not saying…

> It's things like this that brainwash a generation of fools into throwing their lives away at nonsensical ideas.

If anything Silicon Valley has the opposite problem. In science it's not unusual for someone to work on trying to solve the same problem for 10 or 15 years. E.g. look at how long Einstein was working on relativity. Whereas in Silicon Valley people tend to either give up or pivot if their thing isn't working within the first year, often even the first six months.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#43
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you ever gone as frugal as this to speak about it? I've been living a relatively frugal lifestyle for my entire life. Getting smart about expenses and staying that way are the surest path to financial independence. The best advice is to disconnect your expenses from your revenues. If you make $10K more per year, don't let your expenses creep up as well. Just sock it away for a rainy day. One day you'll look ba…

Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though. Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?). I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing starting a startup vs. getting a job as a zero-sum game where it's all about dollars and cents. The article speci…

> Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though.

> Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?).

I've worked at large faceless corporations, started my own company, and at times done both in parallel.

> I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing starting a startup vs. getting a job as a zero-sum game where it's all about dollars and cents.

Nope I've seen this from multiple angles.

I suggest creating a viable private enterprise (i.e. startup / side business / etc) to all my close friends as a long term means to true financial independence. It's not a zero sum game at all. In fact, I see working at an existing company as a great way to find opportunities that need to be solved, expanding your skillset to cover new technologies, and providing overall stability that can be leveraged to pursue your own thing.

> The article specifically is not "romanticizing" or "endorsing" living in the closet. We are all in this life because we want a better future for ourselves and the people around us.

Any article that doesn't call out living like that as a bad thing (even if it's a means to an end) is doing a disservice to a world of wide eyed youth.

> The reality of startups is that rent initially is your biggest cost. The author literally has one sentence about the closet/rent facts - it was the most effective way to maximize their runway.

It'd be even more efficient to live somewhere else. There's no reason they had to be in the bay area.

> You're statistically right that most startups "fail" but why? I've started a number of startups (only one I would consider a very small success) and I have also observed many startup around me. Very often the reason why startup fail are:

> A) People/founders give up B) Running out of cash or coming too close to it after raising money and increasing burn to unnecessary levels.

> One curious story here is how a startup started at $0, and initially raised $50-100k. They thought they are at the top of the world (aka "we can go on forever on this money"). They ended up raising almost $1M and within 1.5 years they burned down to $50-100k. And they gave up. In reality they could have kept going for at least 6-12 months or tried exploring options like raising more, etc, etc. Emotions are very often stronger than logic in many aspect of life, especially startups.

> The big problem with "the American" (read "most of the developed world") way of living/culture is that it normalizes and in many cases strongly endorses the presumably safe path. In reality, there's no safety and nothing is guaranteed. Your safe job that you spent years in building a career can go away and unless you're in engineering I have seen cases where you're very unlikely to find similar compensation at another company. The reality is that you're much more at the mercy of forces beyond your control when you're employed somewhere that you'd like to believe. And finally, starting a company does not mean "not paying yourself" or "not saving". If your company is doing objectively well, you should be paying yourself a salary.

> You also refer to the notion of a "decent idea" but there's a big problem with that adjective/noun combination. The reality is that you almost never know if it's a good idea until you truly apply yourself to the idea for an extended period of time. The initial idea will also very likely change a significant amount. Many of the stories your read in the press are the one week/month wonders but I think the majority of startups took years of hands-on work to get to the recognizable status they have today. Just to name a few, and I won't elaborate on their stories: TempleRun, Pinterest, AirBnb.

And that's the point. It's the work that matters. Not living like a hobo.

> And one final thought: you present living in the closet as an absolutely terrible thing. People have endured much more strenuous circumstances and have "come back to tell the story".

People having done something and survived doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so. It doesn't even mean they're necessarily related (correlation, causation, and all that jazz...).

I'm saying to differentiate between risks and hardships that are required and those that are pointless (or more accurately without a valid risk/reward basis). I see living in a closet to further a startup idea in the latter category. Maybe being in a tech center was required 20 years ago but it's definitely not true anymore (unless your business requires in person interactions with people in that tech center on a daily basis).

By all means pursue your dreams, but there's no need to pursue them like that. Be smart about it.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#44
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. Looks like the punch bowl is empty. Somebody make another round of kool-aid! You know, I've heard this type of irritating comment so many times over the years. I've been on HN since day two of its public launch, back when it was called Startup News. It was a magical time, mostly because everyone was universally supportive. This isn't a rose-tinted view of the past, or selective memory. It was the reason I was b…

I'm not saying that pursuing a startup is always a bad idea. I'm saying that romanticizing living in somebody else's closet as part of the startup journey is wrong. Building something that people what is what counts. Getting customers to pay you for it is what counts. Having profits is what counts. Software (and startups in general) doesn't get created because you're eating beans and rice, heated off a hot-plate, in…

[deleted]

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though. Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?). I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing starting a startup vs. getting a job as a zero-sum game where it's all about dollars and cents. The article speci…

> Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though. > Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?). I've worked at large faceless corporations, started my own company, and at times done both in parallel. > I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing sta…

I see your point. Good discussion. Back to work now, and all the best. Cheers.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#46
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Staying frugal being a good strategy is something we can agree on. The agreement ends there though. > Judging by your profile info and comment I assume you haven't previously started a company on your own from scratch (yes/no?). I've worked at large faceless corporations, started my own company, and at times done both in parallel. > I think this is where the difference of perspective comes from. You are viewing sta…

I see your point. Good discussion. Back to work now, and all the best. Cheers.

> Back to work now, and all the best.

Best advice I've heard all day :D

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#47
post #5

> We convinced our friends in the current Y Combinator batch to let us stay in a closet at their East Palo Alto home office for $600 per month. If we spent $1,000 a month we would have 25 months of runway, which seems infinite. I'm all for frugality and cost controls, but this is ridiculous. It's things like this that brainwash a generation of fools into throwing their lives away at nonsensical ideas. I'm not saying…

> ... let us stay in a closet at their East Palo Alto home office for $600 per month. If we spent $1,000 a month we would have 25 months of runway, which seems infinite.

I don't believe these guys couldn't ask their parents, or an uncle, for some extra money, and I also don't believe that this attitude has any relationship with their success.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#48
I first read only to find out what experiment is (still don't really know) but instead quickly got trapped wanting to read more. Like I was reading something that was not supposed to be public.

Especially the funding process. The description was chilling for me. I am greatful to have chosen to read this.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#49
post #40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

koolba, and what about getting scurvy because of malnutrition while trying to bootstrap your startup? what you think!

I'm assuming you're referring to the classic tale of sama: http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-gave-himself-scurv... Moving fast and breaking things should not require sacrificing your health. Living a healthy lifestyle and putting it front and center in your plans, for whatever you're doing, will more than pay for themselves down the road. To phrase it a bit more poetically, it's hard to type on a laptop with…

> it's hard to type on a laptop with an IV line going into your arm :D

It's doable, personal experience.

Re: Why Y Combinator Made All the Difference

#50
There aren't many positive toplevel comments, and I don't think that's a reasonable situation for such a fine piece of writing. So:

Your story is wonderfully illustrative, in-depth, and inspirational. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

For what it's worth, I really like your writing style. I hope to see much more of it!

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