As an aside, this is a perfect illustration of the states-rights approach going well. States are testing incubators for trying new ideas.
Amen, brother
How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
221–230 of 285 posts
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not "false facts". We're interested in the change of the metric from year to year. Unless there are other factors gaming the statistics, the change over time is valid and useful.
> Unless there are other factors gaming the statistics Would you not consider people who gave up looking for work because they cannot find employment as unemployed?
No, because that it not what "unemployed" means according to the definition of the unemployment rate. This is not a secret or a conspiracy. I learned this in every economics class I ever took, including one in high school. Economists and the government are aware of the tradeoffs involved.
If you want to know how many people gave up looking for work, that is tracked too, but not as well: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=aAf
It becomes pretty difficult to categorize people as "discouraged workers" because it lumps together a lot of people whose situations are different.
For example, a lot of older people who get laid off and can't find another job similar to their previous one might retire early. Should they count as discouraged workers? If so, should they count that year, or for the rest of their lives?
What about the many young people who got laid off during the recession and chose to go to grad school during that time because their job prospects weren't good? Were they discouraged workers or not?
If the government elevated the discouraged worker rate to the same level of importance as the unemployment rate, it wouldn't be very reliable, and most researchers would end up ignoring it because they have serious problems with the methodology.
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#223I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…
Your comment is a little misleading...Rio Grande and Pioneer park are literally right next to each other. And other than those couple streets in that corner of downtown, you'd be hardpressed to find any other gathering of homeless people.
The Road Home (mentioned in the article) and a Catholic food bank and other homeless services are located in that area, hence the reason for the homeless density in that area.
source: I live in downtown salt lake
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#224The situation in Utah is FAR from perfect. I work near a building that was renovated to house the homeless. These places are often rampant with prostitution, drug dealing and other nefarious operations. In effect many now have a roof over their heads, but they now live in what some might consider slums.
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#225I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…
The article states quite clearly:
Utah still has ... a substantial ... homeless population ... around 14,000.
The chronically homeless ... are people who have been living on the streets for more than a year, or four times in the past three years, and who have a "disabling condition" that might include serious mental illness, an addiction or a physical disability or illness.
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#226I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…
Salt Lake City has a lot of seasonal homeless, people who come for the summer and leave for the winter. Seasonal homeless are not counted as chronic homeless. There are no homeless people anywhere else in the state so the ones you see in Salt Lake are it. Not all panhandlers are homeless. Most of the homeless in Salt Lake City seem to disappear at night. There are no massive homeless camps like you see in San Francis…
> There are no homeless people anywhere else in the state so the ones you see in Salt Lake are it.
I've seen panhandlers in Provo before on Center street (not sure if they were homeless or just panhandling)
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US does not have a monopoly on high quality health care, and what use are the best experts if they're too expensive? It's not like you can have your pick of the US top experts as long as you're insured in the US. I live in the Netherlands and our healthcare system is pretty damned good. I pay €92 (~100 USD) a month for my healthcare plan, which covers most anything (I only sometimes have to pay ~€50 for dental ch…
>The US does not have a monopoly on high quality health care, and what use are the best experts if they're too expensive? It's not like you can have your pick of the US top experts as long as you're insured in the US. Go do a google search for something like "best children's hospitals in the world." I challenge you to find a list that isn't at last 75% US hospitals. Most are over 90% US. If you have something that wa…
> Go do a google search for something like "best children's hospitals in the world."
So I did that, and noticed something weird. Here's a list of '30 best'
http://www.topmastersinhealthcare.com/30-most-technologicall...
So, the weird thing? They're all in English-speaking nations, with the exception of one that is in Israel (which has strong medico-political ties with the US and a lot of English speakers anyway). The whole of Europe outside the UK doesn't rate, not even Germany or Sweden.
The problem with these kinds of lists is that they're so Americo-centric to begin with, most probably because they're written by Americans. It's like how the "World Series" in baseball has only a token attempt at including other countries.
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#228The situation in Utah is FAR from perfect. I work near a building that was renovated to house the homeless. These places are often rampant with prostitution, drug dealing and other nefarious operations. In effect many now have a roof over their heads, but they now live in what some might consider slums.
What would you have done differently had you been in charge?
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anyone who claims the minimum wage level is absurd has clearly never tried to live on it.
Are any of housing, hygeine products, food, clothing , transportation or internet expensive, or is it just healthcare costs that are out of control?
Food in the US is incredibly cheap. Not high quality at the cheap end, but incredibly cheap. Same with clothing.
Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not saying "reductions appeared during specific time periods, therefore they weren't real." Reductions appeared during specific years, and Utah also changed the way it measured chronic homelessness in those specific years, in ways that we'd expect to reduce measured chronic homelessness. Specifically: - in 2010, Utah stopped counting people in "transitional housing" as chronically homeless. - in 2015, the Sal…
But this is what the AEI does. It produces op-ed information dolled up to look like research. I personally believe that the motives of the "think"-tank AEI should be held up first and foremost when discussing 'articles' that they produce. They have an end goal in mind: uphold or attack research to support conservative ideologies.
Do you have a source for that? They appear to be a reputable, though conservative, think-tank [1].
I cannot find a rebuttal of the author's interpretation that the 91% statistic is largely due to reclassification. The author appears reasonable. Here is a quote from him:
"The state has rightly focused most intensely on the homeless who sleep on the street and who have serious problems with mental illness and addiction. Hundreds of people have been moved from the street and shelters into housing. Whether the overall numbers have plummeted the way Utah reports should not distract from these positive steps [2]
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute#...
[2] - http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865650317/Utahs-big-drop-...