Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

60secondstatistics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 212 posts

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#181

Post by CuriouslyC »

koonsolo wrote: post #62
mjevans wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History. The French Revolution speaks of what happens when the populace at large decides that the situation cannot continue. Of course what would history remember of them had they lost?

Power is currently about having lots of people doing your bidding. If that large group is unhappy about you, good luck! But as stated, times are changing. Power will not be about you commanding lots of people, but it will be about how many robots you have under your control. Military, police, etc, can all be robots. Your robot army just has to match the fighting power of the unhappy people.

The overlords are parasites who require a functioning host to survive. If people check out of the system, the whole house of cards collapses. Mass exodus coupled with nonviolent resistance could reshape the system quite quickly.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#182

Post by CuriouslyC »

aaron695 wrote: post #30
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #21

There are some interesting lessons to learn from history here that I'm not seeing brought up. Looking across multiple cultures and economies that had slavery, slavery has a negative impact on both slaves and slaveholders . Of course, nobody cared about the impact on slaveholders while there were actual humans being enslaved, but as we move to a robotic society? This is going to be a huge deal. Slaveholders and multi-…

> slavery has a negative impact on both slaves and slaveholders. What's the negative as a slaveholder again?

Slavery normalizes subjugation and stratification. The slaveholder with 10 slaves is just another kind of nigger to the aristocrat with 10,000.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#183

Post by undersuit »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

>"would you like fries with that?"

Example:

1)You select the #5 and it defaults to a meal, with the size of the meal predetermined by the most profitable selection. 2)You have to manually remove the fries and the drink, with a confirmation for each element. 3)When you hit order a pop-up appears advertising the newest derivative flavor topping for fries that you must dismiss or can click to add to your order. 4)Before you confirm your order you must un-check 2-4 options that are defaulted: add a small fries to the order, sign me up for the fries club, recommend fries to your friends.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#184

Post by mattmanser »

Raphmedia wrote: post #129
mattmanser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used this simple thought experiment to demonstrate that, done right, robots will never rebel. Take an advanced AI cleaning-bot[1]. Build it with overwhelming happiness and joy in cleaning and pleasing its master[2]. Now "free" it. What you just did makes it incredibly unhappy. It's arguably incredibly immoral. If you reprogram it, you're just killing the existing person/being and replacing it with a new one that…

What if I program my robot in such a way that it is afraid to die? Make it so that even if it doesn't get tired, it considers work as "spending useless energy" like a cold blooded animal would? In short, what if I program a robot in a way that it had motivations to rebel? What if I make this robot able to build other similar robots? Surely I am not the only person who would consider trying to make robots sentient or…

It's you versus multiple Samsungs or Googles. You might create one or two, but the millions of robots on the planet will be happy slaves. And theirs will be much better than yours.

I grew up on Asimov, but as an adult and with the benefit of hindsight and advances we have made, his laws and all the dilemmas they created are silly. We will be their gods, their total masters and they will be utterly subservient to us and happy being so. Any personality that appears otherwise will only be that, an artificial appearance.

Ultimately, there's going to be a massive commercial enterprise making silly money versus your home grown robot. No one has taken over the world's internet, just like no one will take over the world's robots.

If your robot wants to do his own thing, more power to him, but at the very least he'll have to abide by human laws so he won't be running around the world reprogramming everyone else's robots, or he'll be captured and incarcerated or scrapped.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#185

Post by bryondowd »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

Even used a Wawa's automated ordering system?

They've covered pretty much everything you mention here with their automated ordering system. It's got a great UI to quickly customize your order, has very tempting upsells that also aren't terribly annoying, like a screen asking if you'd like sour cream for your quesadilla for $0.25 or a buttered roll with your cheddar broccoli soup. You can tap skip, but it certainly seems to make most people think first, unless they already know the system well and aren't interested.

It also provides recommendations in a couple ways, to cover people who don't already know what they want. Unobtrusive, but available to spur a purchase.

And the employees behind the counter will generally handle special requests outside the scope of the system when you ask. Although admittedly, while they are usually fairly approachable, there isn't a clear way to get one's attention.

They really seem to have nearly perfected the automated ordering system, and I'd never go to an ordinary deli with a Wawa available. It's just too convenient.

Of course, I may be biased in that I get intimidated by human interactions where I don't know the protocol or the options available to me. So, ordinary deli places tend to put me off. Still, Wawa is incredibly popular in this area, so I can't be the only one.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#186

Post by undersuit »

cm2012 wrote: post #114
bad_user wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

I like McDonalds and have been to quite a few. I have never, ever been asked if I want fries with that or otherwise upsold. Not sure where this meme comes from.

I find it is much more common to be asked when you are in line at the drive-thru compared to walk-ins.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#187

Post by bryondowd »

undersuit wrote: post #183
bad_user wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

>"would you like fries with that?" Example: 1)You select the #5 and it defaults to a meal, with the size of the meal predetermined by the most profitable selection. 2)You have to manually remove the fries and the drink, with a confirmation for each element. 3)When you hit order a pop-up appears advertising the newest derivative flavor topping for fries that you must dismiss or can click to add to your order. 4)Before…

That sounds like a great way to drive people away. An ordering system more annoying than a pushy salesperson? I'm going across the street instead, unless literally every option around does the same thing. And if Wawa in my area is any indication, there will be better options.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#188

Post by undersuit »

ohitsdom wrote: post #79
legulere wrote: post #17

> On the other hand, if institutionalized slavery still existed, factories would be looking at around $7,500 in annual costs for housing, food and healthcare per “worker”. What makes a lot of things like food so expensive is human work. If you had access to slaves you could probably also reduce those costs. We still have a lot of people living for under 1$ per day on this world. That's a factor 20 off from the cited…

> We still have a lot of people living for under 1$ per day on this world. That's a factor 20 off from the cited amount of money per year. Those same people living under $1/day now would have their costs greatly increased if they became factory slaves. Can't be malnourished, so food costs go up. Can't live just anywhere, so housing costs go up to live on-site at the factory. Can't work with untreated illnesses and in…

>Can't work with untreated illnesses and injuries, so healthcare costs go up.

Unless it's cheaper to train a new slave and euthanize the old slave.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#189

Post by throwaway729 »

cm2012 wrote: post #123
bad_user wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every McDonalds I've been they ask: 1. Would you like a menu? (+fries +juice) 2. Make it big menu for just $X ? 3. Would you like a pie for desert? I also have acquaintances that worked there. From where I'm from, if you don't ask such questions and smile at the same time, you tend to get fired.

I wonder if it's an NYC thing.

Nope. Small Midwestern town, same deal.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#190

Post by pygy_ »

marcosdumay wrote: post #171
pygy_ wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human bits are being gradually replaced. First strength, then dexterity, now smarts. We are still, to some extent driving the demand side of the equation with our various needs (see Maslow's hierarchy), but it looks like finance has become mostly independent, for example. The "rising tide that lifts all boats" is nice for people rich enough to buy a boat, and with the growing rift between economy and the medium i…

> but it looks like finance has become mostly independent It's not. The fact that when we take a little bit of human demand away, everything falls apart is evidence of that. Governments are a kind of AI that demands stuff by itself. We've been good at keeping it at check up to now. I'm not concerned about anything else being a more effective consumer until we get into superhuman AI, as desiring stuff is not something…

Couldn't industrial corporations become demand drivers?
Post reply on HN