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Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

theguardian.com

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Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#61

Post by cnnsucks »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #40
cnnsucks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"compelling message for the working class" They have a compelling message for the working class. It's a message of contempt and hate. The long marriage of the working class and Democrats has ended and it wasn't the working class that walked out the door. The Democrats are down to the comfortable professional class preening its "values" and a coalition of grievance groups. Everyone else is on the other side pulling ba…

I don't see the Republican Party championing anything for the working class but death. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432796/working-class-wh...

If someone in establishment media wrote with such contempt for any aggrieved minority in the US, for instance the millions of black Americians that destroy themselves, their families and their communities with drugs, alcohol and aggressive anti-intellectualism, they'd be drummed out of the elite bubble as 'racist.' But you can shit on white trash if you want; the Internet will cite your hate for years when you single out those people.

How brave.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#62

Post by [deleted] »

mcbruiser1 wrote: post #55
maxander wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits" is absolutely the classic American ideal, but it requires that everyone is given half a chance. If you're too poor to go to college, or can't access treatment for a debilitating illness, or subjected to racist/homophobic/whatever discrimination, you've already lost out on the American dream. Compare the "basic resources required to start working your way u…

yeah, life isn't fair and never will be. deal with it.

[deleted]

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#63

Post by mcbruiser1 »

alpha_squared wrote: post #47
nodesocket wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are success stories that start like inner-city with a single parent working 2 jobs quite often. It is possible, very difficult yet possible. Thats the optimism, if you just give people handouts they lose incentive and drive.

> if you just give people handouts they lose incentive and drive Is there any evidence of this? I see this argument used a lot to dissuade from the "handouts" thing and for not helping people. Don't non-profits technically receive handouts? Aren't grants technically handouts? A handout, as I understand it, is money given that isn't meant to be paid back. I think a good portion of handouts already exist, it's just eas…

yes, look at the wealth attrition rate. most wealth is lost by the third generation because of lack of responsibility and entitlement.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#64

Post by taliesinb »

maxxxxx wrote: post #10
faet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

I don't think that Clinton communicated any of these clearly.

Completely. Bernie had plenty of clear, inspiring, resonant policy positions that anyone who heard them can recall. The only thing most people remember from Hillary's campaign was "I'm with her". Trump's response was "I'm with you" or "I'm your voice" or whatever. I mean, how incredibly incompetent is your campaign if you sound more narcissistic than a reality TV troll?

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#65

Post by mcbruiser1 »

alpha_squared wrote: post #60
mcbruiser1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? how about lowering taxes? how about enforcing legal immigration so that working class people stand a chance of getting a job?

> how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. > how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? Deregulation of what exactly? What's the regulation that's prohibiting "hiring more people"? > how about lowering t…

I don't need to cite evidence for common sense. clearly you have none.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#66

Post by castis »

alpha_squared wrote: post #60
mcbruiser1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? how about lowering taxes? how about enforcing legal immigration so that working class people stand a chance of getting a job?

> how about bringing back manufacturing jobs for a start? This isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon, though there are attempts to try[0]. America doesn't have the infrastructure to bring back manufacturing things like the iPhone[1]. > how about deregulation so employers can hire more people? Deregulation of what exactly? What's the regulation that's prohibiting "hiring more people"? > how about lowering t…

I have yet to see any sensible answers to these questions which I, too, have asked a few people. Judging by the tone in which the original statements were posed, I do not expect today to be any different.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#67

Post by buerkle »

forgotmysn wrote: post #36
buerkle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not blatantly obvious. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but let's be clear. Clinton won the primaries by millions of votes. If more states had primaries instead of caucuses Clinton would have won even more states.

It was blatantly obvious. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dn...

That's a different issue. The parent comment was, "It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie". Clinton won millions more votes from the "dems on the street" than Bernie.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#68

Post by akhilcacharya »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
akhilcacharya wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that square with the millions more votes Hillary won? It is really bizarre. She's said to be an awful politician, yet won the popular vote in '08, and in '16 during the primaries and general.

The DNC excluded independent voters in several states during primaries, independent voters they needed to win the general. The voters she won in the primary were not the voters she needed to win. Oops. EDIT: @akhilcacharya: Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose.

Why are independent voters entitled to select the nominee of a party they aren't a part of?

And after all, progressive candidates like Feingold and Teachout lost by an even bigger margin than Clinton in WI and Faso's district, respectively.

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