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Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

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Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#471

Post by Malician »

soverance wrote: post #417
kerbalspacepro wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you are describing might be called 'Weaponized Flow State'. Flow states that arise while [acting, playing music, playing sports, programming] are really hard to generate. You have to develop those skills without "dynamic difficulty setting" that the author refers to. But when your basic skills are enough for you to do well, you can get drawn into a flow state much quicker.

I disagree that these flow states are difficult to generate. While they are extremely more common within designed experiences (such as video games), they can and have been applied with great effect to more "common" tasks, such as acting, playing music, or sports. The very best article I've found on the subject is here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_... Highly recommended reading.

I've never been able to replicate the flow states I used to have from Starcraft/Civilization elsewhere (I've played very few games in the last couple years.) I don't miss the time spent playing them, but my life is much emptier without them.

Sort of exception is when everything breaks down at once and I have a ton of stuff to fix/do in emergency style. That's comforting.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#472

Post by munchhausen »

kamaal wrote: post #464
peckrob wrote: post #72

I've watched this happen to my friends. One that I graduated high school with in particular comes to mind. We all played video games back then. Half Life, Goldeneye, Starcraft, Everquest, etc. He was a smart guy, driven, usually made better grades than me (I was lazy in high school). Took a job at an medical supply company after graduating from high school intending to work for a few months before starting college. W…

>>The whole time I'm looking on at this and thinking, if he was drinking, we would call this alcoholism. But what do we call it when it's video games? The same forces that destroy a person, also make a person great. Replace video games with 'work'. And with 10 years of doing it day and night, you would quite literally be a successful guy in any profession.

And how does a period of 10 years of successfully plodding along in "any" profession, perhaps writing code for an ad platform that enables $people to sell some $shit to $other_people, that are in the habit of buying things they don't need, make a person great?

Doing work does not make a person great. It makes a person fed, clothed and housed, if the pay is decent. But that's about it.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#473

Post by robattila128 »

antisthenes wrote: post #454
robattila128 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have used the word socialism instead of redistribution to make it more clear on my stance, but I didn't want to get political. You are right though, butchering the middle and upper class with taxes then passing it around does help people out of poverty -- At the cost of making our future generations poorer, happens every time through out history. I am heavily against government welfare. For markets to surviv…

Ah, you're one of those who think government corruption is what causes collusion and regulatory capture. Surely the purely perfectly competitive free markets would never collude and lobby the policymakers to create barriers to entry. I'm going to chalk it up to you never taking anything beyond Economics 101, so it is forgivable and understandable. But do yourself a favor, and try not to embarrass yourself in the futu…

>lobby the policymakers to create barriers to entry.

That's why Trump imposes lifetime ban on some lobbying, five years for others. The TPP getting shot down was a big win as well, these are regulations we need to stop government corruption. The west is waking up!

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#474

Post by nommm-nommm »

marknutter wrote: post #415
nommm-nommm wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? I have family that was/are long haul truckers and none of them made anywhere near $70k a year and certainly didn't get a signing bonus(?!) From what I could find online median salary is around $50k, which is about right from my experience.

There's a massive shortage of long haul truckers right now. Industry turnover is at 100%. When was your family doing it? I know of quite a few places here in Minnesota that are offering $70k with a $10-20k signing bonus and still having a hell of a time retaining drivers.

Right now and in the past.

If the job was so high paid and cushy then why would there be 100% turnover? And 100%? You believe there's literally nobody who is a trucker for more than a year? You are not making any sense.

"Pay for truckers varies by distance and employer. Glassdoor estimates median pay for truckers drivers -- mostly long haul drivers -- is $54,000. The American Trucking Association says that truckers who work for a private fleet can earn up to $73,000 a year."

Up to, not minimum. For someone who's very experienced not some inexperienced bozo off the street who doesnt even have a CDL. Not even the frigging industry claims you're going to make $90k your first year.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#475

Post by throwaway862 »

This is at least partly because employers have gotten too picky. They want unicorn candidates that will work for a pittance, and if they can't find them, then they expect the government to provide them through guest worker visas or other forms of corporate welfare:

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/why-good-people-c...

This is particularly bad in tech. When good jobs are seemingly always out of reach, it's understandable that some people eventually just give up:

http://danluu.com/programmer-moneyball/

It's also worth noting that young men are dropping out of the marriage market too, given how risky a proposition marriage has become for men. If you don't plan on having a wife or a traditional family, then your living expenses plummet. Why work yourself to the bone to pay for a big house, multiple cars, or the other costly trappings of married life that a modern family requires (or at least, a modern wife demands) if you don't plan on having one? In a way, it's actually quite brilliant, because feminism has traditionally worked to secure women's independence by just shifting their dependence from their fathers and husbands to the state in the form of public assistance, which women consume vastly more of, and which men vastly more subsidize through taxation. What happens when men work less and pay less in taxes, and the till no longer remains full?

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#476

Post by xiaoma »

T-A wrote: post #429
xiaoma wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always curious about 2nd life but never tried it and I'm not sure why. What year was your store's peak revenue? Where do you think most 2nd lifers went? Is there a viable successor these days, maybe in its early stages?

Don't know about parent's store, but SL's peak year was 2009: http://taterunino.net/statcharts/mo_cmedian400full.jpg My guess is most "2nd lifers" still among the living (people with disabilities and medical conditions seem to be overrepresented among users; death announcements are not uncommon) are still around, they just log on less frequently and spend more time in other online worlds. The obvious successors in th…

Thanks!

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#477

Post by mattmanser »

guitarbill wrote: post #368
mattmanser wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Occupy protests around the world? Arab spring? 2011 UK riots? Black lives matter? There's a definite undercurrent that politicians are barely keeping a lid on, the latest manifestations being Brexit and Trump.

While you're right in those being reactions to a (correctly) perceived helplessness, have those things actually changed anything? I personally subscribe to Adam Curtis' argument [0] - from his works like Hypernormalisation and Oh Dearism - that they haven't changed anything fundamentally. Sure, Brexit and Trump have had an effect, but are people truly better off? For all Trump's talk (whether you see that as positive…

Large societal changes are fairly rare events. Personally I think the next stage is a new form of worker revolt, some new spin on Unions or Communism, the next Marx has yet to write his magnum opus yet though. Those words are still viewed as bad in the West, so it will need new terminology too.

And to be clear, I don't ascribe to communism or anything, I'm simply speculating that some sort of new ideology, with a focus on the common person, will arise in the next 50 years to direct and fuel the next revolt. You'll know it when you see it.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#478

Post by taway_1212 »

touchofevil wrote: post #311

I played A LOT of competitive Magic: The Gathering from about age 14-21. We used to call it "cardboard crack" so we all understood that the game was addictive. I had a lot of fun and met some great people, but even back then I knew that I had a problem with the game and that I was addicted to it. This was before people talked about gaming addiction and I don't think American society understood that it could actually…

I dunno, I also played a lot of competitive M:tG, between 17 and 22, but I found it very fulfilling. I made some of my life-long friends through it, I went to places all over Europe (for tournaments) and overall had a ton of fun. That was mostly before the advent of Magic Online, I understand that now Magic can be largely played like other online video games (plus the skill level is way higher, because the most obsessed people can just practice 100 hours per week), whereas in the past it explicitly required you to socialize to have playtesting partners, borrow cards, split rides to tournaments etc.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#479

Post by lacampbell »

owebmaster wrote: post #341
lacampbell wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if there are Neo-Nazis out there who argue that Hitlers regime was not real National Socialism.

The "interesting" thing about capitalism is that it kills millions of people every year and people defending it don't need to say that this isn't real capitalism. It is. And it made it common to die, kill and fight wars for money and resources.

The two most murderous regimes in history have both been socialist ones. Capitalism has proven itself to be less deadly and more prosperous than both socialism and feudalism (which I assume you must be referring to with your "it made it common...", as if there was some idealistic pre-capitalist society to emulate).

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#480

Post by JDiculous »

brightball wrote: post #51
JDiculous wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that's the case, is that a bad thing? Should we not have the freedom to spend our own time as we please in a post-scarcity society?

I keep hearing that term lately...but nobody can explain to me how post scarcity is even possible

Like JoeAltmaier said, I was referring to just basic needs being met (eg. shelter, food, internet connection). Obviously we'll never reach a point where everyone can have whatever they want.

If there's a better term than "post-scarcity", would love to hear it.

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