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Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

theguardian.com

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Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#41

Post by nodesocket »

baursak wrote: post #33
nodesocket wrote: post #13

I respect Bernie, and really admire his class and honestly. However I don't agreee with his economic and political ideology. A "hand-out" government would be near disasterious for America. It goes against one of the core principles of being American, the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits. To start a company that can be successful at home and abroad without excess regulation, red-tape, and buracr…

> the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits Kind of like Trump did? Or the current generation of Walton family? Anyway, I thought this was short and to the point on this subject: https://brightside.me/article/what-you-should-think-about-be...

Larry Ellison was born in Brooklyn, NY to a single mother, Ellison was raised by his aunt and uncle in Chicago who were quite poor. Howard Schultz (Starbucks CEO), Sean John, Oprah Winfey, Jay-Z, do you want me to continue naming people who come from hard positions with little to no money and the inner-city and made it on a grand scale?

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#42

Post by [deleted] »

moomin wrote: post #9

Coming from a country where Sanders' policies are frankly uncontroversial, I wonder if pundits are discounting the effect that Sanders vastly prolonging his campaign after he'd clearly lost has had on whether the DNC wants to give him the time of day. Truth is, guy doesn't seem like much of a team player. This he has in common with Trump, but Trump won. If Trump had lost in the primaries and then the RNC had lost the…

[deleted]

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#43

Post by eli_gottlieb »

nodesocket wrote: post #30
jressey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have a full understanding of Bernie's positions. "It goes against one of the core principles of being American, the ability to work your way up, without limits." is horseshit. Tell that to a child born in the inner-city with a single parent working 2 jobs and a garbage primary education.

There are success stories that start like inner-city with a single parent working 2 jobs quite often. It is possible, very difficult yet possible. Thats the optimism, if you just give people handouts they lose incentive and drive.

To talk about possibility without probability is magical thinking.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#44

Post by cnnsucks »

faet wrote: post #5
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I am telling my Democratic friends that instead of whining about the popular vote or talking about resisting Trump in general the Democrats should develop a spine and actually stand for something. If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

"increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies"

Despite what every source of 'truth' that you have self selected has trained you to believe, we don't actually want more bennies. Subsisting on the bennies you decide you can afford for us is not our aspiration.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#46

Post by akhilcacharya »

cnnsucks wrote: post #44
faet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

"increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies" Despite what every source of 'truth' that you have self selected has trained you to believe, we don't actually want more bennies. Subsisting on the bennies you decide you can afford for us is not our aspiration.

...what?

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#47

Post by alpha_squared »

nodesocket wrote: post #30
jressey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have a full understanding of Bernie's positions. "It goes against one of the core principles of being American, the ability to work your way up, without limits." is horseshit. Tell that to a child born in the inner-city with a single parent working 2 jobs and a garbage primary education.

There are success stories that start like inner-city with a single parent working 2 jobs quite often. It is possible, very difficult yet possible. Thats the optimism, if you just give people handouts they lose incentive and drive.

> if you just give people handouts they lose incentive and drive

Is there any evidence of this? I see this argument used a lot to dissuade from the "handouts" thing and for not helping people. Don't non-profits technically receive handouts? Aren't grants technically handouts?

A handout, as I understand it, is money given that isn't meant to be paid back. I think a good portion of handouts already exist, it's just easier to justify not giving handouts to people that are societally (or personally) perceived as inferior because it's easy to not empathize with their situation.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#48

Post by divbit »

maxxxxx wrote: post #10
faet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

I don't think that Clinton communicated any of these clearly.

At risk of talking politics, for example, she spoke against Sanders plan on universal health care at an important point in the race [1]. If she later changed her stance to be for universal health care, I don't think people either realized it or believed it - basically she needed to commit to it strongly enough so that it would be politically hard to flop after winning and not do it (to gain the voters who cared about that). Fwiw, it sounds like she is now running for NY governor, hopefully she wins that.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/hillary-clinton-single-p...

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#49

Post by mcbruiser1 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #46
cnnsucks wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies" Despite what every source of 'truth' that you have self selected has trained you to believe, we don't actually want more bennies. Subsisting on the bennies you decide you can afford for us is not our aspiration.

...what?

I think he's saying people don't aspire to depend on entitlements.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#50

Post by HoppedUpMenace »

nodesocket wrote: post #13

I respect Bernie, and really admire his class and honestly. However I don't agreee with his economic and political ideology. A "hand-out" government would be near disasterious for America. It goes against one of the core principles of being American, the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits. To start a company that can be successful at home and abroad without excess regulation, red-tape, and buracr…

I definitely agree with this. I like the guy, seriously genuine and far from corrupt. However, offering "free" anything doesn't solve anything and I don't believe neither he or his supporters can see, nor do they want to see, the bigger picture of such policies.
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