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How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

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121–130 of 285 posts

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#121
post #89
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Winter weather that will kill people sure makes not counting seasonal homeless a great way to say you don't have any homeless problems.

Also shipping your homeless and/or mentally ill to CA.

Wha? Why CA? Las Vegas is way closer.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#122
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't worked for single payer healthcare yet. Nobody brings up that almost every other country's government pays less than the US.

If you're a wealthy person anywhere in the world and you have a really terrible disease you're probably going to come to the US to get care. Why? Because we have the highest quality healthcare in the world. There's a reason why there was some mild drama over Danny Williams (Premier of Canadian province) hopped the border to have heart surgery in the US. We're the best. What we lack is healthcare access for the poor.…

Well said. I sometimes hear complaints that US healthcare is more expensive, that (perhaps just by mistaken reasoning) treat healthcare as a commodity. In Economics terms, that's a pretty hefty simplification: sort of like complaining that US phones are so much more expensive than Finnish phones.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#123
post #58
post #6

> For Joe Ortega, it means ... getting used to being alone. I would not have figured that moving off the street would be more isolating than living on the street. Don't these housing options mean that someone else is living just in an adjacent room or across the hall?

When you're used to them laying right next to you, with no walls between, then adding walls is going to be more isolating.

And more insulating, dryer and safer. Couldn't a dwelling, room or bed be shared if loneliness was a problem?

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#124
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing politicians to agree to some left-wing ideals: prove that it will save money and let them lower taxes." You could make the same case for health care. There are plenty of countries that get good quality health care at a much lower cost for the country but somehow in the US it's impossible to learn from that. I always though the US is a pragmatic country but over th…

Yes, if US politicians weren't beholden to pharmaceutical and insurance companies, it would already be a reality. It makes sense from either side of the aisle. It just doesn't make sense for the few people who stand to lose billions.

I think it goes even deeper. People simply can't comprehend that health care in Germany or France (the countries I know) is fine at lower cost. They can't even consider this.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#125
post #66
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also very likely true . http://www.aei.org/publication/on-utahs-91-percent-decrease-...

There is nothing in that analysis that suggests that the reductions aren't real. Quoting in "The Data" portion: > Figure 2 shows that, measured by its point-in-time counts, Utah experienced a less dramatic, but still impressive 71 percent decrease in chronic homelessness since 2005. Yet should we trust even the point-in-time counts? Yes. If you want to challenge them, go out and do point in time counts rather than su…

They're not saying "reductions appeared during specific time periods, therefore they weren't real."

Reductions appeared during specific years, and Utah also changed the way it measured chronic homelessness in those specific years, in ways that we'd expect to reduce measured chronic homelessness. Specifically:

- in 2010, Utah stopped counting people in "transitional housing" as chronically homeless.

- in 2015, the Salt Lake region implemented a "new process for confirming whether individuals are chronically homeless."

> If you want to challenge research, you don't do it by suggesting someone is lying, you do it by using the scientific method.

If you want to challenge research, you don't do it by attacking the motives of the researchers or by brutally misstating their arguments to make them look ridiculous. You don't pretend that the research is just "suggesting someone is lying" when it's not. If "anti-science" means "willing to look into potential methodological issues with data provided by the government" then sign me up.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#126
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also shipping your homeless and/or mentally ill to CA.

Wha? Why CA? Las Vegas is way closer.

Nevada has been caught shipping theirs to CA, so that's still shipping them to CA, just less directly.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#127
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) Lots of people bring that argument up. I hear it all the time. b) There's a difference between "the US pays" and "the US government pays".

Can you explain b). Doesn't "the US government pays" mean that the US pays, one step later?

Yes-ish; but maybe not the other way around.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a libertarian that supports unions. If you can get enough of the labor force together to demand higher wages or better benefits, more power to you. I don't think the government should be involved in that. I'm even happy to support socialist style businesses where the workers share ownership. If someone can make that work and be successful/competitive? Awesome. Again, I just don't think the government has any busi…

Appreciate the response and POV. Based on the info you shared here, I think you're someone who could definitely work with more left-leaning people to find common ground, which is sadly missing from the people actually making decisions. My question would be: without government intervention, what incentive do mega corporations have to allow unions to continue? What prevents them from making their own rules, which preve…

Without government intervention it would be harder for mega corporations to exist in the first place. The broadest example is how insane our patent and copyright laws are right now. I do support monopoly laws and think we don't drop that hammer nearly enough.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#129
post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Utah's success should be replicated where it makes sense. But just because Utah can reduce chronic homelessness 90% by adding 1,000 beds in a low land value, low labor cost state doesn't mean you can simply transfer the program to San Francisco or San Diego and achieve the same success.

One of the achievements of Utah is actually putting together decent living conditions in their homeless housing. I fear California's attempt to replicate at scale this would end up in some Cabrini–Green like nightmare.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#130
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't worked for single payer healthcare yet. Nobody brings up that almost every other country's government pays less than the US.

If you're a wealthy person anywhere in the world and you have a really terrible disease you're probably going to come to the US to get care. Why? Because we have the highest quality healthcare in the world. There's a reason why there was some mild drama over Danny Williams (Premier of Canadian province) hopped the border to have heart surgery in the US. We're the best. What we lack is healthcare access for the poor.…

I'd have to look into this, but I'd imagine the fact that the best doctors preside a.) in the richest country in the world with b.) the most lucrative health industry has a lot to do with the former as well as the latter. Danny Williams also claimed he traveled to the US to see a specific specialist, not because no one in his own province could do the surgery, although we can't know for sure.

To make your arguments and not take all that into consideration also seems disingenuous.

(I also can't imagine that heart surgery would become drastically more dangerous in the US under universal healthcare, certainly not enough to offset it's unavailability. Where exactly are these amazing doctors going to go, anyway?)

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