Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

1843magazine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 535 posts

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#461

Post by antisthenes »

cableshaft wrote: post #427
soverance wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment totally needs to be higher. Every other comment on this thread makes little to no mention of "Skinner Box Design", when design tactics like these are almost certainly the #1 factor for creating video game addicts. The issues we're discussing in this thread start with the game designer. Cognitive flow is a real thing, and game designers have learned through decades of research and testing how to put playe…

Also a game designer here (and programmer). I think you should be clear that a game designer is not always the one who makes the decisions on how to monetize a game. Often it's the people who are in charge of financing the game's development, i.e. publishers or executives. In fact, often game designers would rather not do this pay to win crap, although it's hard to ignore that it does seem to be the primary way peopl…

As an avid board game player to a board game designer:

Please make sure that the chance to win isn't determined purely by random chance (die rolls), or at the very least enough rolls to average out for the players, or, in the worst case, some way to optimize for the most probable die rolls (like Catan)

Losing a game from a critical success or critical failure from a die roll makes me never want to play the game again.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#462

Post by dragonwriter »

edblarney wrote: post #440
alphonsegaston wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here's one. The boomer's coasted on the tail end of a rising post-war economy and government largesse, then burned the ladder behind them and destroyed their legacy by electing Reagan. By any measure (college financing, wages, home prices) they were ridiculously advantaged relative to young people today, who now have to suffer under an obscenely priced regime of credentialism, largely administered (for their ow…

"The boomer's coasted on the tail end of a rising post-war economy and government largesse, then burned the ladder behind them and destroyed their legacy by electing Reagan. " Utter bullshit. It's not even anectodal - it's just complete narrative fiction. This is HN, try some facts. Which material or social elements regarding standard of living between the generations, implies that 'Millenials have it harder'? By eve…

> If you were alive during the cold war, then you know that 2017 is obviously not the cold war.

As a Gen Xer, I was alive during a lot of the late Cold War, and I'm very much aware that after the brief hiatus with the fall of the Soviet Union, there's been wide talk of a growing new cold war between the US and Russia since the Balkans crises of the 1990s, and that that Cold War has included many of the hallmarks of the old one, including proxy wars, direct saber rattling, violent covert actions, attempts by each side to subvert the government of the other principal and/or allies, etc.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#463

Post by antisthenes »

researcher11 wrote: post #154
firstpost1234 wrote: post #26

Hard to blame anyone for spending their time doing things where success is quantifiable and quickly displayed. This is the Western countries' version of hikkikomori and there will only be more of it as education and good opportunities become out of reach for more people. Men seem more likely to do this than women because of the societal pressures on them to get a job and run the rat race of dating and climbing a none…

I think the social penalty of a young man dropping out is lower than a young women because their perceived social value is much lower. It is a lower height to fall from.

The social penalty is called opportunity cost in Economic terms. These men generally don't have big social networks that could have gotten them jobs in the first place, so there isn't much lost when they isolate themselves.

For women, losing their social network is losing a large chunk of their safety net (if they aren't receiving welfare otherwise), so it's almost unfathomable for them to do so of their own accord.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#464

Post by kamaal »

peckrob wrote: post #72

I've watched this happen to my friends. One that I graduated high school with in particular comes to mind. We all played video games back then. Half Life, Goldeneye, Starcraft, Everquest, etc. He was a smart guy, driven, usually made better grades than me (I was lazy in high school). Took a job at an medical supply company after graduating from high school intending to work for a few months before starting college. W…

>>The whole time I'm looking on at this and thinking, if he was drinking, we would call this alcoholism. But what do we call it when it's video games?

The same forces that destroy a person, also make a person great.

Replace video games with 'work'. And with 10 years of doing it day and night, you would quite literally be a successful guy in any profession.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#465

Post by antisthenes »

pravda wrote: post #191
edblarney wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utter and complete rubbish. The 'boomers' invented most of the 'computer stuff' you use, most 'developers' today are hacks (granted, some are amazing). Boomers had difficult upbringing, brought real social change, lived through - and ended the Cold War. Female boomers were expected to be secretaries - and had to fight for the right just to do normal jobs in the workplace. Even the boys - were expected to do the same…

And let's think about what the boomers didn't have. No cell phones. No GPS. No soft contact lenses. No electronic fuel injection (carburetors! yay!) No Google I can keep on going with this for a long time LIFE WAS A LIVING HELL FOR BOOMERS! BE SO HAPPY YOU WERE NOT ONE!

Soft contact lenses existed in the 60's and disposable contacts existed since the early 70's.

Just a minor nitpick.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#466

Post by TheCoelacanth »

datatan wrote: post #194
yehi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree. Apart from maybe post WW2 in America, the average person has always had to work much harder than the elite. There were sweatshops, Kings, slavery, and colonialism. If we look at American now, even with all of its issues, it is much better for the middle and lower class than it was 100 years ago.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion when the middle class is almost gone in this country.

Compared to 1917? The middle class was in its infancy at that point. Workers were still fighting for basic safety protections and one day off per week.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#467

Post by kamaal »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #197
edblarney wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utter and complete rubbish. The 'boomers' invented most of the 'computer stuff' you use, most 'developers' today are hacks (granted, some are amazing). Boomers had difficult upbringing, brought real social change, lived through - and ended the Cold War. Female boomers were expected to be secretaries - and had to fight for the right just to do normal jobs in the workplace. Even the boys - were expected to do the same…

This response is so stereotypical and contrary to the facts of the conditions of young people today, I have to thank you for demonstrating both my and the parent's points. Thanks for that!

Speaking as a non-American millennial, that is largely true though.

I think the current generation American kids will be even more worse.

When I saw kids in the US and when I see the kids in India. Its just feels like American kids live in some kind of Disneyland. The level of competitiveness and hard work as a culture in kids in India have is just a whole double digit factors higher.

The fact is that US ecosystem is largely saved because of the Economic inertia and the endless stream exceptionally talented pool of great people who immigrate there. That large replenishing pool of people pays for the party forward.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#468

Post by cableshaft »

antisthenes wrote: post #461
cableshaft wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a game designer here (and programmer). I think you should be clear that a game designer is not always the one who makes the decisions on how to monetize a game. Often it's the people who are in charge of financing the game's development, i.e. publishers or executives. In fact, often game designers would rather not do this pay to win crap, although it's hard to ignore that it does seem to be the primary way peopl…

As an avid board game player to a board game designer: Please make sure that the chance to win isn't determined purely by random chance (die rolls), or at the very least enough rolls to average out for the players, or, in the worst case, some way to optimize for the most probable die rolls (like Catan) Losing a game from a critical success or critical failure from a die roll makes me never want to play the game again…

I'm an avid board gamer as well. I've averaged over a hundred new board games tried every year the past 3 years. I'm pretty aware of the state of the hobby board game industry, and that's mostly what I'm targeting (albeit the simpler card game end, not the eurogame end, at least not yet. Think something like Arboretum, Parade, or Sushi Go). Tonight I'm excited I'm going to finally get to try Imperial out, and I'm going to try to get an older game I had to order from Canada, Pack & Stack, to the table.

That being said, there are benefits to having randomness. It helps to broaden its appeal. If you've got the time, I recommend checking out one of Richard Garfield's many talks on Luck vs Skill. He talks about his experiences with Magic the Gathering, as well as how Valve designed Team Fortress 2 based on his articles and juggling luck vs skill. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSg408i-eKw

I know how worrying it can be when a video game designer switches to board game design though. You get some that will just slap something together without considering the industry, and then you get something more akin to Exploding Kittens or some sprawling miniatures game that looks beautiful but plays like garbage.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#469

Post by erikpukinskis »

p1esk wrote: post #324
dragonwriter wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do they mean that same capitalism that brings >1,000,000 Chinese people out poverty every month? No, they mean the dominant economic system of the developed West in the mid-19th through early-20th century (since replaced in the developed west by the modern mixed economy which is an unstable form with a danger of reverting back to capitalism because it retains central features of capitalism.) What China has is a tra…

A word of advice: avoid the word "Marxism" like a plague. If you believe there are some good ideas hidden in it, present those ideas directly, without assigning historical credit to anyone.

That kind of language policing is ridiculous. The words mean what they mean. If there is some taboo around a word like Marxism or feminism or islamism, that doesn't mean we need new words, it means there is resistance to the ideas. Over time the words depoliticize slightly and can be used freely again.

Giving in to people who are trying to cloud the meaning of words is the linguistic equivalent to negotiating with highjackers. You can do it, but you just make the job easier for the next highjacker.

I know it's a scary moment, where it feels like words have lost their meaning and insanity reigns, but that's just the zeitgeist. Words still mean things and that still had power.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#470

Post by karmajunkie »

Endy wrote: post #226
karmajunkie wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that same passage and wondered who was paying attention to the kids? Great, Dad's got some buddies who will lay down some cover while he changes a diaper. What's the kid get out of that deal?

What's the kid entitled to? He has a father. He gets a clean diaper when he needs it, and likely extra attention. Compared to some of the kids of single moms I knew where video game protagonists WERE their father figure, the kid has it good.

Are you serious? The bar for being a not-shitty parent is not an alcoholic. Every child is entitled to a caretaker that is paying attention to them. The fact that some children don't get that does not mean they aren't entitled to it.
Post reply on HN