Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#211

Post by always_good » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

Tepix wrote: post #4

Bummer. I understand why they do it but I think it's too coarse. I'd much rather know how many people thought a movie was fantastic and not just decent.

The problem is that everyone has a different idea of what the 1-5 scale means. My girlfriend never gives a 5 except for her favorite movie since nothing can match its greatness.

Meanwhile I rate everything 1-star vs 5-star.

So I'm not too convinced there's any nuance in star averages, much less a difference between "decent" and "fantastic". It might just be a more divisive movie that averages out to a 3-4.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#212

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #109

chiliap2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your thesis is basically, ratings mean absolutely nothing, and how good something is should solely be based on how popular it is?

The problem as I understand it is that the "rating space" is multidimensional (a piece can be funny with great plot but bad writing compensated for by a great lead and awesome special effects although the set design was inconsistent) but all of this has to be projected into a 1-dimensional system. And the rub is that not everybody uses the same projection, which means the utility of one person's rating for another un…

This is a very clarifying way to put it thank you.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#213

Post by derrekl » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #210

derrekl wrote: post #207

I've been in favor of up/down for years over x out of 5 or x out of 10. The core reasoning is: it captures your overall emotional response to something very succinctly. Sure you might hate X more than Y or like A more than you like B, but you'll return, revisit, recommend all the things you like and not do so for the things you don't like. When you can rate out of 5 or 10 you get thrown into a sort of tizzy trying to…

This benefits those that want to data mine such data, not those that want to meticulously catalog their interests. This is one of my biggest gripes with music services such as Google Play. Thumbs up/down ratings are great for Google, but suck for me, the listener, as I wish to construct a detailed, per-song breakdown of my musical tastes.

I don't believe up/down should replace written reviews, but neither does an x out of 5 or 10 system. Written reviews are the place for that in depth analysis. That said I'm not familiar with Google Play and don't know if they have written reviews or not.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#214

Post by dasil003 » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

ultrasandwich wrote: post #154

I've found some solace using Mubi, which has a pretty devoted film fan base that really puts thought into written reviews + star ratings. I almost always read a handful of these before following-through with a viewing. They also have a nice 1-in-1-out movie per day system which lets them theme films by event (Cannes, director birthdays, etc). Not for everyone, but it's out there.

Glad to see MUBI mentioned here. I spent 9 years of my life building it as co-founder and tech lead.

My biased view is that if you are sick of bland streaming selections then you should really support MUBI. The more subscribers we can get the more we are able to fund great unique content. Our approach is fundamentally different from the data-driven, mass-appeal approach that tends to sand all the corners off of Netflix/Amazon content. Currently most MUBI content is licensed with a few exclusive releases sprinkled in, and the US selection is not as good as the UK, but as the subscriber base grows it will get better and better. Netflix et al are a volume game and the unit economics don't work out for them to purchase great indie films. If you care about great film as opposed to episodic content, MUBI is the streaming service that is pushing the envelope there.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#215

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

derrekl wrote: post #207

I've been in favor of up/down for years over x out of 5 or x out of 10. The core reasoning is: it captures your overall emotional response to something very succinctly. Sure you might hate X more than Y or like A more than you like B, but you'll return, revisit, recommend all the things you like and not do so for the things you don't like. When you can rate out of 5 or 10 you get thrown into a sort of tizzy trying to…

If they captured and displayed to the user how many users watched it vs how many ups and downs it might give users a better indication.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#216

Post by svachalek » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:08 PM UTC

pizzetta wrote: post #74

As I posted in the dupe: This saddens me. >Users would rate documentaries with 5 stars, and silly movies with just 3 stars, but still watch silly movies more often than those high-rated documentaries That's not incongruous to me. The stars are not about "enjoyment" factor, they are about perceived quality. I may have a go to cheap ice-cream and rate it 3-stars but rate a good affogato 5-stars and only have it once in…

I don't work in the recommendations side of the house, but the way I understand things is that nowadays your star ratings (and now up/down ratings) are primarily to learn about you, what you liked and didn't like and therefore what you might like to see in the future. They're not really about creating a Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB style database of trying to rank all movies on some sort of objective "regardless of what you like, this is a high quality movie" sort of scale.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#217

Post by scruple » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #146

bryanlarsen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're optimizing the wrong metric. They should be optimizing "number of people who pay for Netflix". Instead they are optimizing "number of hours spent watching Netflix". Those two metrics are correlated, but definitely not fully. If I spend hundreds of hours a month watching meaningless action movies and TV on Netflix, I can cancel my subscription and save myself hundreds of hours and $10. I've got lots of other w…

How do you know what metric Netflix are optimising?

They tell you so in TFA.

> Users would rate documentaries with 5 stars, and silly movies with just 3 stars, but still watch silly movies more often than those high-rated documentaries.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#218

Post by derrekl » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:12 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #215

derrekl wrote: post #207

I've been in favor of up/down for years over x out of 5 or x out of 10. The core reasoning is: it captures your overall emotional response to something very succinctly. Sure you might hate X more than Y or like A more than you like B, but you'll return, revisit, recommend all the things you like and not do so for the things you don't like. When you can rate out of 5 or 10 you get thrown into a sort of tizzy trying to…

If they captured and displayed to the user how many users watched it vs how many ups and downs it might give users a better indication.

That's a pretty interesting idea. It would indicate a sort of apathy rating. Not that a product or service with a high apathy rating is bad - might actually be good for certain things.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#219

Post by vthallam » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

This is what even Google does now for the movies and tv shows on the search. If you are logged in while searching for a movie or TV show, it gives thumbs up or down and shows the approval rating in total.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#220

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

sfifs wrote: post #209

pizzetta wrote: post #74

As I posted in the dupe: This saddens me. >Users would rate documentaries with 5 stars, and silly movies with just 3 stars, but still watch silly movies more often than those high-rated documentaries That's not incongruous to me. The stars are not about "enjoyment" factor, they are about perceived quality. I may have a go to cheap ice-cream and rate it 3-stars but rate a good affogato 5-stars and only have it once in…

We've analysed product ratings in the past and found that the online ratings tend to have primarily bimodal distributions. People who rate online welf select and either love something and give very good ratings or they dislike and give poor ratings. Unlike surveys where people have to answer questions, only people with extreme reactions tend to answer these online rating questions and you don't get any meaningful di…

I'm far from an expert on statistics, but wouldn't the fact that star ratings tend to fall on a bimodal distribution just mean that the ratings that don't fit the bimodal distribution have a higher signal/noise ratio than the ones that do? I'd think you could use a 2-4 rating as an indicator of a thoughtful reviewer. Additionally, it seems like you could also use the fact that a particular reviewer doesn't fit the overall bimodal distribution as a sign that this reviewer's reviews are similarly more thought out.