Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#201

Post by r_smart » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #86

pizzetta wrote: post #74

As I posted in the dupe: This saddens me. >Users would rate documentaries with 5 stars, and silly movies with just 3 stars, but still watch silly movies more often than those high-rated documentaries That's not incongruous to me. The stars are not about "enjoyment" factor, they are about perceived quality. I may have a go to cheap ice-cream and rate it 3-stars but rate a good affogato 5-stars and only have it once in…

> They are diluting the meaning of quality and instead are opting for a saccharine "enjoyment" factor. They are just trying to increase number of views for a poor quality library. This will mask how bad most of the content is and increase their numbers.

I have to say, I quit Netflix a few years ago after a long membership, due to security concerns (it was a nightmare at the time). Recently I started my membership up again, and I'm really disappointed with their library. Every movie I've wanted to watch has turned out to not be available for streaming. They've got some good shows, but I'm getting tired of super heroes and I don't always want to watch television, sometimes I want movies.

I'm on the brink of cancelling my membership as it is, this certainly won't help, though it's obviously the proverbial straw rather than a big deal in its own right.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#202

Post by always_good » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

Markoff wrote: post #166

so how exactly i distinguish between liking something a little and loving something? this seem like pretty retarded decision at least we have TMDb where we can rate and discuss movies, unlike IMDb or Netflix

I think you should distribute your TMDB shilling across a few more accounts, mate. I actually recognized your username from one of your shills I found so bad that I linked it to a buddy of mine.

Just some of your recent posts on HN:

    > why would i participate on dumb backup of database, 
    > done without my consent (OP stole 14 years of my posts),
    > when I can go to proper movie database with discussions, 
    > imported ratings and watchlist from IMDb, called TMDb (themoviedb.org)

Shill Tip: don't link to your shill target when it's googleable like "TMDb" is. It makes it look like you are just dropping a name everyone should know.

Love the fake outrage about having your comments "stolen", as if anybody really cares.

    > he doesn't and he illegally copied 14 years of my posts which 
    > i don't like especially since I moved to TMDb which is proper
    > movie database where you can also import your IMDb ratings 
    > and watchlist and each movie there has own discussions

Another:

    > i would recommend checking TMDb which launched discussions 
    > for each listed title just yesterday, so don't expect there 
    > will be much content, but at least each movie or TV show had
    > its own page and own forum, much more neat than reddit

Consider leveling the load across more accounts though, and mix in some different strategies.

ctrl-f for "TMDb" on each page of your comment history and you'll see the problem.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#203

Post by relaytheurgency » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

There's always a better option if you like metrics: instantwatcher.com sorts Netflix/Amazon content with a variety of external metrics like IMDB score etc. It's pretty great if you are just browsing (rather than seeking recommendations).

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#204

Post by nbadg » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

croon wrote: post #103

wvh wrote: post #45

Is this just part of the trend to dumb everything down to a polarising dichotomy? Because the trend to stop people from having a more complex and rational opinion than just picking sides doesn't seem to exactly improve discourse or debate, or inform and educate... Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have fewer people give a more detailed review to describe what they like and dislike about something? What use is "good"…

I think one problem is that people have vastly different opinions on what 3 stars mean. For some it's quite bad, for some it's in the middle. A binary option actually has three options. Did it prompt me to rate it as bad, or did it prompt me to rate it as good, or was it bland enough where I don't want to sway the rating of it at all? If I rate a movie on IMDB as 5-6, and maybe even 7, the possibility of me recommend…

From my perspective, that shouldn't be a problem. Ultimately (as a user) the point of the rating is for me to get stuff that I like -- so it's all relative to me, regardless of individual rating differences.

Now, I realize that's almost certainly not the level of individualization offered by their ranking algorithm (I'm convinced there's way more of a "groupthink" dynamic), but that's partly my point: if your ratings and recommendation system isn't capable of supporting individual differences, then your algorithm is broken.

If you have a complex problem (personalized recommendations absolutely are complicated) then you shouldn't fix a broken algorithm (Netflix recommendations are, at least for me, a bit meh) by simplifying the inputs (switching from stars to up/down). You should fix the broken algorithm, by creating a better algorithm.

I realize it isn't that simple, particularly for a publicly-traded company whose stock price would absolutely be influenced by a decision to scrap part of their core technology, but from my perspective as a user, this is going to hurt my experience with the product.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#205

Post by sugarygrind » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

My Previous ratings already in Netflix, was the reason for being there. This dumbed down version of up/down voting is ridiculous. Most companies become sophisticated. Netflix is going backwards in time.

All in all this is a RIDICULOUS move. I wish I could download all my previous ratings before they remove them!

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#206

Post by M_Grey » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

bubblethink wrote: post #191

M_Grey wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US here, so I'm not sure where out options differ. For me, I do (as a poster below noted) like anime so Crunchyroll is a good choice. Hulu is good for seasonal TV stuff, and then I actually use a smartDNS to get access to UK channels. It's probably a matter of taste though... I don't like most movies, and prefer longer-forms for telling stories.

>use a smartDNS At that point, isn't just plain old piracy more convenient ?

I've been so long out of that game, I wouldn't know where to begin, so not for me, no.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#207

Post by derrekl » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:52 PM UTC

I've been in favor of up/down for years over x out of 5 or x out of 10. The core reasoning is: it captures your overall emotional response to something very succinctly. Sure you might hate X more than Y or like A more than you like B, but you'll return, revisit, recommend all the things you like and not do so for the things you don't like. When you can rate out of 5 or 10 you get thrown into a sort of tizzy trying to rationalize a system of what is 1 star, 2 stars, etc. Do you subtract a star because you think something is overpriced even though you like it? Do you subtract a star because it's hard to get it (say slow delivery) even though you like it? Basically you want to start to categorize every facet of a product/service which becomes complicated quickly. Thumbs up/down avoids all that and I think over many hundreds or thousands of reviews the ratio of up to down will provide a good probability indicator of liking something or not.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#208

Post by philh » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

sterex wrote: post #180

philh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do find IMDB's ratings breakdown fascinating to explore, though. For example, you can look at the 50 Shades films or A Dog's Purpose or (especially) Gunday and have a pretty good idea that lots people are giving them bad ratings without having seen the films. (Their weighted average ratings are supposed to combat that, but they don't seem to be doing a very good job.)

Actually, Netflix is poised in a better position to filter between people who just rated the item vs people rating it AFTER viewing it (for a minimum duration). The latter class of people will have have more weight attached to their voting.

That's true, but it doesn't sound as fun to poke around in.

(Obviously, "collect a dataset that philh finds interesting" should not be a business goal of Netflix. I'm not suggesting this is a reason to keep the star ratings. It's just a thing that I like about having ratings more detailed than yes-no.)

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#209

Post by sfifs » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

pizzetta wrote: post #74

As I posted in the dupe: This saddens me. >Users would rate documentaries with 5 stars, and silly movies with just 3 stars, but still watch silly movies more often than those high-rated documentaries That's not incongruous to me. The stars are not about "enjoyment" factor, they are about perceived quality. I may have a go to cheap ice-cream and rate it 3-stars but rate a good affogato 5-stars and only have it once in…

We've analysed product ratings in the past and found that the online ratings tend to have primarily bimodal distributions. People who rate online welf select and either love something and give very good ratings or they dislike and give poor ratings. Unlike surveys where people have to answer questions, only people with extreme reactions tend to answer these online rating questions and you don't get any meaningful distributions. So the only meaningful way to model say drivers from comments vs. ratings is to treat the ratings as binary and do a logistic type model.

Ultimately the key reasons to have these ratings in the first place is not to let people express their feelings, it is to get data for the recommendation modeling to predict better. Perhaps showing a simple like/don't like increases the number of people rating something which gives you more training data and thus better business outcome from your model without compromising on midel quality since you had to anyway model it bi-modally before.

Re: Netflix Replacing Star Ratings With Thumbs Ups and Thumbs Down

#210

Post by echelon » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

derrekl wrote: post #207

I've been in favor of up/down for years over x out of 5 or x out of 10. The core reasoning is: it captures your overall emotional response to something very succinctly. Sure you might hate X more than Y or like A more than you like B, but you'll return, revisit, recommend all the things you like and not do so for the things you don't like. When you can rate out of 5 or 10 you get thrown into a sort of tizzy trying to…

This benefits those that want to data mine such data, not those that want to meticulously catalog their interests. This is one of my biggest gripes with music services such as Google Play. Thumbs up/down ratings are great for Google, but suck for me, the listener, as I wish to construct a detailed, per-song breakdown of my musical tastes.