In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be • Hacker News Board

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#151

Post by omegaham » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

rljy wrote: post #119

hedonistbot wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery,"... I am not sure if this is correct. In Bulgarian we have almost the same word работник (rabotnik) and it just means "worker". No forced, slave connotations. Also checked with google translate and it doesn't find Czech translation for "robotnik" but it suggests to switch to Polish and translates it to "worker" as in Bulga…

It does mean that in Czech. Which is strange, because in Slovak it just means work. I've translated a paragraph from wikipedia for you: "Robota neboli poddanství je ve feudálním systému osobní služba sedláků a rolníků pro jejich pány. Robotník je pak výraz pro poddaného robotujícího pro svého pána, někdy též vyššího správního či soudního úředníka, drába apod." "Robota is a feudal system of personal employment to the…

I liked Asimov's quote on it.

> Capek's play is, in my own opinion, a terribly bad one, but it is immortal for that one word. It contributed the word 'robot' not only to English but, through English, to all the languages in which science fiction is now written.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#152

Post by Qwertious » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:42 PM UTC

lotu wrote: post #100

6d6b73 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But switching might not be that easy. When you have kids in schools, your wife helps at a local X , and your parents depend on health care provided by the corp, it could be virtually impossible for a person to switch.

Comparing the inconvince of having to switch schools, not being able to volunteer and depending on healtcare/insurance to slavery is a massive insult to people that where and are actual slaves. Actual slaves did not legally own themselves or their children. Their owners can did take children, parents, and spouse and sell them to different slaveholders so they would never see each other again. A slave could not say fu…

That definition of slavery is debated - the phrase "wage slavery" being key.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#153

Post by striking » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:45 PM UTC

hedonistbot wrote: post #111

kevinr wrote: post #8

As is only appropriate, given the word's etymology. > ro·bot (n.) 1923, from English translation of 1920 play "R.U.R." ("Rossum's Universal Robots"), by Karel Capek (1890-1938), from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery," from robotiti "to work, drudge," from an Old Czech source akin to Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude," from rabu "slave," from Old Slavic orbu-,…

> from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery,"... I am not sure if this is correct. In Bulgarian we have almost the same word работник (rabotnik) and it just means "worker". No forced, slave connotations. Also checked with google translate and it doesn't find Czech translation for "robotnik" but it suggests to switch to Polish and translates it to "worker" as in Bulga…

Pole here, can confirm "robotnik" is worker and "robota" is work.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#154

Post by heynowletsgo » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

The concept that machines will become the problem and not people is absurd. Completely absurd. People make the machines and people prevent machines from increasing the quality of life for most people. The only change needed in the progression of technological advance is people allowing labor saving devices to actually save everybody from laboring, not just a few. The problem remains the use of slavery by people to increase wealth.This notion of "we must fear computers because they are going to rule us" is frankly moronic, just a distraction from the inability of capitalists to share the rewards of advancement.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#155

Post by shuntress » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

pygy_ wrote: post #144

shuntress wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We move on to harder problems. I don't think the end-game for humanity is one that sees every extant human sitting idle in a small residence with enough food/entertainment to subsist. There is a life beyond Earth for humanity and it probably coincides with our development of strong AI/robotic life.

Humans in space in my eyes make as much sense as motorized fishbowls on highways. We're even less competitive compared to robots in non-terraformed environments.

Human biology _VASTLY_ outperforms our robots in the key areas of wound-healing and energy efficiency which are incredibly important considerations in hostile environments.

Humans and robots working together will be far more capable in non-terraformed environments than either one alone.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#156

Post by gozur88 » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #57

pygy_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With capital becoming self-sufficient and human labour non-competitive, why would you think robots would serve us on a large scale? What's the incentive to serve and feed idle meat bags? Automation is destroying the only power that people still had over capital. Capitalism is the ultimate paperclip maximizer... a zombie that feeds on growth rather than brains. https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer Edit:…

History. The French Revolution speaks of what happens when the populace at large decides that the situation cannot continue. Of course what would history remember of them had they lost?

But the only reason the revolution succeeded is the French army was made up of people, some of whom decided to throw their lot in with the people against the aristocrats.

The new aristocracy will have robotic soldiers with no empathy for people.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#157

Post by e12e » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #145

cobookman wrote: post #137

This rings home with me soo much. I've interacted with a few startups designing robots to replace human labor. Was scary to see that automation is here its just too expensive compared to human labor. But technology generally decreases in cost over time while human labor gets gradually more expensive. So its only a matter of time that all manual labor is replaced by robots.

People have said that it's only a matter of time before all manual labor is replaced by machines since the industrial revolution started. Yet it keeps not having happened just yet. EDIT: I'm talking about all human work, not just physical labor. The "manual labor" part of the quote confuses my intended point.

By that logic, mounted police and a handful of tourist taxi services are evidence that the automobile haven't replaced horses yet.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#158

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #145

cobookman wrote: post #137

This rings home with me soo much. I've interacted with a few startups designing robots to replace human labor. Was scary to see that automation is here its just too expensive compared to human labor. But technology generally decreases in cost over time while human labor gets gradually more expensive. So its only a matter of time that all manual labor is replaced by robots.

People have said that it's only a matter of time before all manual labor is replaced by machines since the industrial revolution started. Yet it keeps not having happened just yet. EDIT: I'm talking about all human work, not just physical labor. The "manual labor" part of the quote confuses my intended point.

That isn't really true. Not only has it been happening, but we've gotten more ambitious and broadened the definition. Now, we aren't only saying machines will take over labour, but that we'll be able to do even less with automation.

The fact of the matter is, however, that we (humans) do a lot of different things, so we need a multitude of specialized machines and automation. That takes time, and we had to pick and choose where we started. Farming is one of those that is ahead of the curve, fast food is mid-way as it is just now becoming cost-effective. Health care, not so much right now. Those are more difficult machines.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#159

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #106

rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

I think human interaction is over-rated. I have to check the receipt every time I order food to make sure what I ordered was communicated by me, and correctly interpreted and inputted by the worker. Instead, if I just entered what I want into the system, then it is transcribed and I have a record and they have a record and there is less chance of mistake. If there is a mistake, there is no "he said she said" finger pointing.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#160

Post by bblough » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #123

bad_user wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every McDonalds I've been they ask: 1. Would you like a menu? (+fries +juice) 2. Make it big menu for just $X ? 3. Would you like a pie for desert? I also have acquaintances that worked there. From where I'm from, if you don't ask such questions and smile at the same time, you tend to get fired.

I wonder if it's an NYC thing.

> I wonder if it's an NYC thing.

I think it's a US thing.

I remember that when I was younger I would get asked those questions every time, but not any more.

In the past few years (decade?) there has been a lot of push back against upselling fast food due to obesity concerns. If I had to guess I would say it probably started around when the movie "Super Size Me" was released (2004).

Now, if I order a meal, I might get asked "what size" without any suggestion. Or if I order a sandwich by name, I usually get asked to clarify if I want "the meal or just the sandwich." But I can't remember the last time they actually tried to upsell me.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if upselling still happened outside of the US.