How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness • Hacker News Board

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#41

Post by theophrastus » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

stevecalifornia wrote: post #24

theophrastus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having relatives in city government I have overheard that Utah's proud achievement was accomplished by "adjustments made to their demographic surveys". And that this was seen as a very economical solution to the problem.

I feel like cynical hear-say like this adds nothing to the conversation. It just tries to smugly diminish good news with no proof.

I've always subscribed to Carl Sagan's "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". That is, the burden of proof lies with those who assert a surprising claim. If you wish to assert that dramatically reducing "Homelessness by 91 Percent" isn't an extraordinary claim, then on that basis one could consider having to support this freely admitted hearsay, but if otherwise then the burden of proof ought to be on them.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#42

Post by mabbo » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea.

But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned.

Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing politicians to agree to some left-wing ideals: prove that it will save money and let them lower taxes.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#43

Post by hl5 » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

Homes for the homeless. What an obvious solution! May I suggest medical care for the sick next?

I'm glad some cities are starting to recognize the level of dignity and hope a private residence with private facilities can give to impoverished families. Sadly it appears these types of programs seem to only be funded when wrapped in some questionable marketing or political gain.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#44

Post by douche » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Would that it would be possible for the reverse to happen. Never will left-wing politicians lower tax rates.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#45

Post by vondur » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

Last time I was in Salt Lake, there were a bunch of homeless people camped out all over the place. It was really odd, I noticed some of them were just casually smoking weed. Still not as bad as it is here in the Southern California area.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#46

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #40

meritt wrote: post #26

Utah didn't solve homelessness. The primary "reduction" was changing the definition of chronic homelessness and now less people are being counted. http://www.aei.org/publication/on-utahs-91-percent-decrease-...

I have a great idea on how to eliminate poverty!

In Poland, one small city was recently called out on the radio for having the worst air quality in the whole voivodeship. The mayor got pissed off about this and solved the air quality problem quickly and efficiently, by removing the measurement station.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#47

Post by sounds » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

theophrastus wrote: post #41

stevecalifornia wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like cynical hear-say like this adds nothing to the conversation. It just tries to smugly diminish good news with no proof.

I've always subscribed to Carl Sagan's "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". That is, the burden of proof lies with those who assert a surprising claim. If you wish to assert that dramatically reducing "Homelessness by 91 Percent" isn't an extraordinary claim, then on that basis one could consider having to support this freely admitted hearsay, but if otherwise then the burden of proof ought to be on…

Sure, the burden is on them to make this real, but not for them to prove it to _you_.

If they want to prove to the chronically homeless that they can get a home, they only need to follow through with the home.

Or perhaps they want to prove to their constituents that the number of chronically homeless has diminished. Easy enough: tell their constituents where to go to count homeless people. Again, it's not incumbent upon them to count, or even to provide easy access to the location. Just give verifiable steps and expect your constituents to do some legwork. (Most won't, but maybe a news crew will.)

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#48

Post by ljf » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Totally this - I read once that is costs around £16000 a year per rough sleeper in central London, through policing, clean up, emergency care, and other costs. And that at the end of the year (if the person hadn't died) they were no less likely to be a rough sleeper than at the start.

It just seems crazy that we can't better funnel that money to intervene and support people, to plan on removing that cost over the long term.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#49

Post by pfarnsworth » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Canadian conservatives are roughly in line with Democrats in the US. At worst they are slightly to the right of Dems but not by very much.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#50

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #44

mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Would that it would be possible for the reverse to happen. Never will left-wing politicians lower tax rates.

[deleted]