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In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

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Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#111

Post by hedonistbot »

kevinr wrote: post #8

As is only appropriate, given the word's etymology. > ro·bot (n.) 1923, from English translation of 1920 play "R.U.R." ("Rossum's Universal Robots"), by Karel Capek (1890-1938), from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery," from robotiti "to work, drudge," from an Old Czech source akin to Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude," from rabu "slave," from Old Slavic orbu-,…

> from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery,"...

I am not sure if this is correct. In Bulgarian we have almost the same word работник (rabotnik) and it just means "worker". No forced, slave connotations. Also checked with google translate and it doesn't find Czech translation for "robotnik" but it suggests to switch to Polish and translates it to "worker" as in Bulgarian. And работа (rabota) means "work" in Bulgarian and google translate shows the same for the Polish translation.

Someone from Czechia here?

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#112

Post by maxerickson »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

On the other hand, with kiosks you can start A/B testing and so on.

I'm not really sure that people eat at McDonald's for the price. If you are price sensitive, cooking pasta at home costs less than McDonald's and isn't all that time consuming.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#113

Post by seibelj »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

I get your point, but with a kiosk they could dynamically give special deals, like "add fries for $0.18" if it is profitable for them at that moment (maybe they are about to toss the batch of fries). Honestly I wouldn't consider McD's cashiers to be good salesmen.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#114

Post by cm2012 »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

I like McDonalds and have been to quite a few. I have never, ever been asked if I want fries with that or otherwise upsold. Not sure where this meme comes from.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#115

Post by marchenko »

samsolomon wrote: post #70
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

You know, I'm not sure this goes into the automation category—this is more of an operational improvement. Originally, you'd go to a restaurant. You'd sit at a counter. They would take your order and give you a drink along with your meal. Then someone realized that it saved a huge amount of time just giving people cups and letting them fill their own drink. Not only that, but it made the job of staff easier, because t…

At my last McDo visit, in Switzerland, most of the ordering was through kiosks and the staff was repurposed toward table service. The restaurant was especially clean and friendly, and there seemed to be a lot of staff. So there is hope for complementarity.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#116

Post by aninhumer »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #53
mtgx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least until the robots rebel. The EU is already planning on giving robots rights. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/12/give-robo...

Why rebel? Robots are effectively immortal. Why not just coddle us and give in to our every whim until we stop breeding and disappear? Couldn't take more than a few hundred years or so. Looking at the lifespan of MI, it's rounding error.

If we become reliant on robots to survive, it would be relatively easy for those robots to kill us off very quickly if they somehow decided to do so. Why would they choose a slow way instead? You call it a "rounding error", but it's still a measurable amount of time and resources wasted.

I can imagine such a scenario occurring by accident (e.g. because the AI only values individual humans' happiness, not continuation of the species), but I can't imagine an AI choosing to kill us off in such an inefficient way.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#117

Post by lohi »

bad_user wrote: post #106
rejschaap wrote: post #4

"If it takes $2,000 to install what is basically an iPad and stand for customers to order from at McDonald’s or Chipotle, a restaurateur is looking at less than a month before recouping their entire investment if they eliminate just one cashier position." Obviously it takes a little bit more than that. You need to develop the software that runs on the kiosk. You also need a back-end system so the kitchen knows what t…

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

Oh, I don't think it will work in the US (at least not initially). Americans are accustomed to a certain level of service, in part because of cheap labor. I remember standing behind an American family at McDonald's and their order was just on another level, very specific. Nothing wrong with that, they are getting their money's worth, just different expectations.

We've had automated ordering at local chains in Sweden for 10 years, both in store and on your phone [0]. And more recently also at McDonald's. But you're expected to do a lot of things yourself here. This goes back at least to the '70s with the explicit idea to increase wages and production [1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyPqoT1yp4&t=60s [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehn%E2%80%93Meidner_model

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#118

Post by bad_user »

cm2012 wrote: post #114
bad_user wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake. We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a " would you like fries with that? " type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap " Skip " as an automatic gesture and without regrets. Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy…

I like McDonalds and have been to quite a few. I have never, ever been asked if I want fries with that or otherwise upsold. Not sure where this meme comes from.

In every McDonalds I've been they ask:

1. Would you like a menu? (+fries +juice)

2. Make it big menu for just $X ?

3. Would you like a pie for desert?

I also have acquaintances that worked there. From where I'm from, if you don't ask such questions and smile at the same time, you tend to get fired.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#119

Post by rljy »

hedonistbot wrote: post #111
kevinr wrote: post #8

As is only appropriate, given the word's etymology. > ro·bot (n.) 1923, from English translation of 1920 play "R.U.R." ("Rossum's Universal Robots"), by Karel Capek (1890-1938), from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery," from robotiti "to work, drudge," from an Old Czech source akin to Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude," from rabu "slave," from Old Slavic orbu-,…

> from Czech robotnik "forced worker," from robota "forced labor, compulsory service, drudgery,"... I am not sure if this is correct. In Bulgarian we have almost the same word работник (rabotnik) and it just means "worker". No forced, slave connotations. Also checked with google translate and it doesn't find Czech translation for "robotnik" but it suggests to switch to Polish and translates it to "worker" as in Bulga…

It does mean that in Czech. Which is strange, because in Slovak it just means work.

I've translated a paragraph from wikipedia for you:

"Robota neboli poddanství je ve feudálním systému osobní služba sedláků a rolníků pro jejich pány. Robotník je pak výraz pro poddaného robotujícího pro svého pána, někdy též vyššího správního či soudního úředníka, drába apod."

"Robota is a feudal system of personal employment to the owners of estates and country houses. A robotník is a person who works for his/her lord."

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota

Edit: I listened to the play by Karel and Josef Čápek, and it is most inanely stupid, sexist, pseudo-religious drivel I've come across in a long while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.

Edit2: The verb robit means to make something and has nothing to do with slavery.

Re: In Manufacturing and Retail, Robot Labor is Cheaper Than Slave Labor Would Be

#120

Post by mljoe »

koonsolo wrote: post #62
mjevans wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History. The French Revolution speaks of what happens when the populace at large decides that the situation cannot continue. Of course what would history remember of them had they lost?

Power is currently about having lots of people doing your bidding. If that large group is unhappy about you, good luck! But as stated, times are changing. Power will not be about you commanding lots of people, but it will be about how many robots you have under your control. Military, police, etc, can all be robots. Your robot army just has to match the fighting power of the unhappy people.

That's why we can't have tech and science knowledge concentrated in the hands of a powerful few. If AI/robotics knowledge is everywhere, no single group will be able to control it.
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