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Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

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Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#161

Post by saryant »

flukus wrote: post #153
saryant wrote: post #112

I'm a 26 year old male and never got any deeper into video games than some intense rounds of Mario Kart in college. I've played others but generally lose interest and move on quickly. Doubt I've played a video game in a few years at this point. What follows is likely senseless babbling and bullshit armchair pop psychology. The prevalence of video games among young men frightens me, in two ways: First, in the developm…

There's a generation a decade older than you that grew up putting enormous amounts of time into video games. We're all (mostly) functional individuals now, so I'm not to worried about kids today doing the same.

Could the more modern games my generation grew up with be more immersive, having a larger effect on mental development?

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#162

Post by jraines »

ethbro wrote: post #147
aaron695 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations Sorry, but this is just bullshit. But if it makes you feel better, it's normal to think this, every generation blames the previous. (And the older generation thinks the latest is lazy)

I feel like the Boomers were pretty happy with the Greatest. You know, defeating genocide, sowing the seeds for a decades long wave of economic expansion, technological advancement, and peace (albeit by not managing to swap nukes with the Soviets).

"Why don't you all just f-f-fade away / and don't try 'n dig what we all say"

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#163

Post by dvt »

Usually love the Economist -- and I read it regularly -- but I think this article is bullshit. It's the same kind of nonsense people were writing in the mid and late-90s: that violent games cause violent tendencies. Luckily, those claims ended up being completely debunked by dozens of studies.

Now, we have a "gaming epidemic" that has gripped the unemployed, underemployed, and depressed? Give me a break. Gaming is simply the cheapest form of entertainment and escapism today. In the 70s, it was movies. In the 60s? I don't know, drugs?

My point is that gaming is used here as a red herring (heck the article even admits to this: "gaming isn't the problem" in one of the last paragraphs). Really, this has nothing to do with gaming, and everything to do with the growing pains of every generation. The article also tries to awkwardly criticize common-sense truisms, e.g.: "Many gamers (Guillaume among them) report that they are happy with the decision to work less and game more."

Uh.. duh? Even I would be happy working less and gaming more, and I have a pretty awesome job. Is it really some kind of poignant discovery that people would rather have fun than work? Here's another example: "For Emily, and for many others, games were not the luxury luring her away from career. They were a comfort blanket and distraction, providing some solace when the working world offered only bitter disappointment."

And.. why is this bad exactly? Why is it bad to take some time off and decompress if you have a horrible job you hate? What's the alternative? Work yourself to the bone, fall in love with someone you hate, have some kids that hate you, get a divorce, and die alone? What is Mr. Avent's point here? Because I don't see one.

Disclaimer: I played Counter-Strike competitively and professionally from around 17-22 (I'd say on average 5-6 hours a day). I still play every now and then, but don't compete at tournaments or in leagues. I'm 30 now. Not only was my experience irreplaceable and positive (I made many life-long friends and met many cool people), but it also helped me with many other aspects of "grown-up" life:

- I learned to be goal-oriented and focused

- I learned how to lead and work with a team to succeed at a common goal

- I learned how to weed out shitty people that poison the environment

- I learned what it truly takes and how hard it is to be the top 1% at anything (even at a stupid video game)

- I learned how to negotiate contracts and balance budgets

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#164

Post by yummyfajitas »

chongli wrote: post #131
yummyfajitas wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll worry about that when it happens. We're not even close yet. https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/robots_didnt_take_ou... Similarly, the average American fat person shouldn't eat 6 cheeseburgers on the theory that starvation is coming.

So you want to turn all those unemployed dudes who eat cheeseburgers and play video games all day into your domestic servants, but pay them the same amount of money they're receiving as part of their benefits right now? Do you have any idea how angry they'd be if that happened? It would make la Terreur look like an episode of Teletubbies.

I'm glad we've gone from moral imperative to recognition that these folks are merely extortionists.

But on practical grounds I disagree with la terreur - call of duty is not really a substitute for military training. Senseless violence of the sort you almost seem to be advocating (am I misreading?) could be easily suppressed by a modern police force.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#165

Post by flomo »

deelowe wrote: post #25
65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

This really hits home for me. Seems like every older family member I have just has tons and tons of useless stuff. I dont get it.

Right now, the biggest pile of useless stuff I have is .. video games.

(~Twenty years ago I bought every Atari/Intellivision/Vetrex/etc game I could find at various flea market and thrift stores, and for the last ten I've been dreading getting rid these boxes of useless stuff.)

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#166

Post by ehnto »

nether wrote: post #114
nitemice wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same is true out here in Australia. Places like Melbourne and Sydney are crowded and expensive, but the cheaper properties are all out in rural areas, where your choice of employment is slim, especially if you made the "mistake" of training in any tech sector job.

Just live in the lame ass suburbs like everyone else. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Are you going to be on your deathbed wishing you had more squid ink pasta and museums in your life? No, you'll wish you spent more time your loved ones, which you can do anywhere.

My loved ones live in a town with the population of 1000 people and 400km from the city, where the only tech jobs are.

Not everyone grew up in the city suburbs. Not to mention, I am talking about the burbs not the CBD anyway. Rent is still %50 of my tech sector wage for an ancient two bedroom unit in the suburbs. Rent sharing is the only sane option, hooray living with strangers.

I don't mind, I enjoy and appreciate what I have, but you can't pretend like it's the same opportunity for everyone and the same opportunity as it was a few decades ago. Things are different, and it's different in ways wr can try and fix, hence the conversation on the topic.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#167

Post by ethbro »

dmoy wrote: post #64
sandworm101 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how many of those boomers have themselves slipped into the alternate realities of drugs and alcohol? If you are going to distract yourself, videogames are better than drinking. The remark in the OP about the father having to change a baby while playing a game is telling. That father could put his gaming on pause. A generation ago, how many fathers in similar situations were catatonic with a bottle in one hand? Ra…

I don't mean to derail because I think you have a valid point, but I believe alcoholism is still a way worse problem today. If I'm remembering correctly, it's something like the same number of people die due to alcohol every year in the US as shoot themselves death (~30k)... and that's just fatalities; if we're talking family problems it's way higher.

Historically, we (Americans at least, I hear Russians are quite a bit higher) aren't drinking much these days: ~2.25 gallons of pure alcohol a year. Compared to 6.6 gallons in 1770 [1] and 7.1 gallons in 1870 [2] (thus igniting the calls for Prohibition).

[1] http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/moonshine-whiskey-i...

[2] http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31741615

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#168

Post by marknutter »

diogenescynic wrote: post #79

Good paying jobs are scarce and video games are relatively cheap for the amount of time you can spend on them. It's escapism. They are confusing correlation with causation.

This is such bullshit. Right now you can walk into a long haul trucking job with zero years experience and be making $70k minimum with a $10-20k signing bonus after a short month long training. And that's one of myriad trades that are available today. The lie that has been sold to America's youth that everyone has a "right" to go to college and is entitled to a job upon graduation will go down as one of the greatest crimes committed against an entire generation.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#169

Post by aaron695 »

ethbro wrote: post #147
aaron695 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations Sorry, but this is just bullshit. But if it makes you feel better, it's normal to think this, every generation blames the previous. (And the older generation thinks the latest is lazy)

I feel like the Boomers were pretty happy with the Greatest. You know, defeating genocide, sowing the seeds for a decades long wave of economic expansion, technological advancement, and peace (albeit by not managing to swap nukes with the Soviets).

The generation pre-boomers might have defeated genocide but they also, you know, did a genocide.

But true, people don't normally think that.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#170

Post by daodedickinson »

I got great grades. Didn't matter, no one with enough capital to employ human beings wanted me to do anything for them. So I have to come up with fake things to do. If you don't like it, maximize employment and start hiring people not for profitability but with an aim towards developing people into what you consider maturity to be. Our powerful people like the Uber CEO don't seem to be concerned with whether they are designing a society in which people can have thriving marriages and support children. The Uber CEO apparently believes that he himself is not mature.
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