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Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

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Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#131

Post by fapjacks »

henrikschroder wrote: post #97
shostack wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, screw common meat. Let's get interesting and take the bottom out of things like poaching by doing rare game meats, or creating entirely new engineered meats that are tastier and healthier than nature. I do worry though on the impact this will ultimately have on the farming industry and jobs. It is a slightly subtler form of job automation.

Why worry? The meat industry is completely disgusting, and raising animals for slaughter is morally bad. The sooner we can disrupt this industry and stop killing animals, the better. I have zero remorse for the farmers that will be impacted. I just had a fantastic dinner with a perfectly fried beef tenderloin steak. It was delicious. If this could be made cheaper, faster, better, and without having to kill a cow ever…

Mmmmm. Sounds delicious... I-I mean... Sounds morally reprehensible.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#132

Post by Ensorceled »

lolwaaaat wrote: post #127
Ensorceled wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me crazy about vegans. Sorry, it is easier to eat meat. The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced. Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder. Not saying it's not healthier, not saying is not more ethical, not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying.

What drives you crazy about vegans? That your flawed, biased assumptions are challenged? Protein is in all whole foods. You don't need to eat soy, or legumes, to get your fill as a vegan. You just eat food. Like a regular person. Except you don't hurt animals in the process. Simple!

Weird. All my vegan and vegetarian cookbooks have lentils, beans, chickpeas or tofu. often mixed with nuts, in pretty much every dish. And suggest nutritional yeast as a good source of B vitamins, especially B12 (admittedly as an additive)

This is wrong? Are you claiming you can just eat cruciferous vegetables, for instance, and be fine?

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#133

Post by Ensorceled »

ada1981 wrote: post #122
Ensorceled wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me crazy about vegans. Sorry, it is easier to eat meat. The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced. Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder. Not saying it's not healthier, not saying is not more ethical, not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying.

For me, the ethical considerations alone make it harder. It is hard work for me to do things I consider unethical on a regular basis and I'd much rather not have the cognitive load of blocking out information on a daily basis. My personal experience was that going vegan was much easier than not, as soon as I became aware of what was going on (at around age 18). Once I realized that animals have relationships and emot…

Yeah, I get that. Farming, especially modern methods, are pretty horrific.

I've been reducing meat in my diet and eat vegetarian a couple of days a week. I try to buy ethically raised meat for other days.

What I was reacting to is the idea that it is some how not an effort to be vegan, as if it isn't any more work than stopping off at MickyD's on the way home ...

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#134

Post by Ensorceled »

throwaway243546 wrote: post #82
Ensorceled wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me crazy about vegans. Sorry, it is easier to eat meat. The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced. Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder. Not saying it's not healthier, not saying is not more ethical, not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying.

> This is what drives me crazy about vegans. Do you think all vegans are the same? There is no need to make a huge generalization about a group that is so diverse. > The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source? In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole pl…

> Do you think all vegans are the same? There is no need to make a huge generalization about a group that is so diverse.

True, I should have qualified this. It's only a subset of vegans who frustrate me this way.

> I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source?

Really? Google "is meat easier to digest than vegetable protein". It literally has millions of results.

> In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole plant protein comes packed with fiber, while animal protein comes packed with cholesterol, IGF-1 and saturated fat. If your goal is to prevent heart disease and cancer through dietary means, plant protein is higher quality.

Yeah, I get this argument. It's why I'm eating vegetarian or vegan at least a few times a week these days.

> This statement makes it clear that you don't know much about vegan diets. This is usually a concern I hear from pre-vegans or people who have been vegan for 2 weeks.

I'm going by discussions such the ones in my vegan cookbooks, similar to this one:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein

> If you've been eating meat for 20 years, it will be easier for you to keep eating meat, no one is disputing that.

That was the crux of my argument: it is NOT easy to be vegan, stop saying it is. It is arguably better. Healthier and more ethically sound. But my vegan days have much more time-consuming shopping, cooking and prep days.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#135

Post by sprocket »

ethbro wrote: post #88
sprocket wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pastured Cornish Cross, which is the standard broiler barn chickens. They are genetically predisposed to pack on as much muscle in as short a time span as possible. By the time they're ~ 9 to 10 weeks old, they are waddling giants, and I'd definitely not characterize them as exercised. :) That said, the difference that being able to forage green grass and insects in the short period they were out on pasture (usuall…

And as a quick point out, the feed conversion ratio [1] on poultry is pretty stellar. Anywhere from 1.5-3.5:1 is normal for feed:body weight increase. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio

Cornish Cross in particular are fantastic at converting feed into weight gain. In 10 weeks, you can go from a fluffy little ping pong ball sized chick to an almost 10lb live-weight bird. It's often unwise to raise them past that age, because the rate of weight gain puts so much stress on their internals that they'll frequently keel over from a heart condition. By the 8 to 9 week stage, they're already so heavy that they can only take a handful of steps because having to plop down and have a rest for a bit.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#136

Post by jimmywanger »

lolwaaaat wrote: post #128
jimmywanger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it easiest? Raw meat, eggs, and such are very easy to cook and make delicious. Tofu is already highly processed, and beans require a length cooking time. By any definition of the word, animal protein is less time consuming to make more delicious than plant protein.

You think "raw" meat is unprocessed? That's cute.

> You think "raw" meat is unprocessed?

Your reading comprehension needs work.

And compared to tofu, a cut of raw meat is far less processed.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#137

Post by shostack »

henrikschroder wrote: post #97
shostack wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, screw common meat. Let's get interesting and take the bottom out of things like poaching by doing rare game meats, or creating entirely new engineered meats that are tastier and healthier than nature. I do worry though on the impact this will ultimately have on the farming industry and jobs. It is a slightly subtler form of job automation.

Why worry? The meat industry is completely disgusting, and raising animals for slaughter is morally bad. The sooner we can disrupt this industry and stop killing animals, the better. I have zero remorse for the farmers that will be impacted. I just had a fantastic dinner with a perfectly fried beef tenderloin steak. It was delicious. If this could be made cheaper, faster, better, and without having to kill a cow ever…

While I generally agree with you about a lot of the industry practices and conditions, that isn't really the fault of the minimum wage farmers and factory workers who are just thankful for any job.

My point was more around the fact that, much like trucking, farming employs a large number of people in the US who generally are on the lower income side. If you take these jobs away, we have a larger national issue of what to do with a massive number of unemployed people with no means to support themselves. It isn't an easy problem to solve, and it is far from being a black and white issue.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#138

Post by henrikschroder »

ada1981 wrote: post #123
henrikschroder wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why worry? The meat industry is completely disgusting, and raising animals for slaughter is morally bad. The sooner we can disrupt this industry and stop killing animals, the better. I have zero remorse for the farmers that will be impacted. I just had a fantastic dinner with a perfectly fried beef tenderloin steak. It was delicious. If this could be made cheaper, faster, better, and without having to kill a cow ever…

Wait.. what? "The meat industry is completely disgusting, and raising animals for slaughter is morally bad." but yet > "I just had a fantastic dinner with a perfectly fried beef tenderloin steak."

If I define morality such that I always make good moral decisions, then it's not morality, it's subjective post-rationalization mish-mash.

For morality to be true and relevant, we have to be able to consciously make bad moral choices.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#139

Post by henrikschroder »

shostack wrote: post #137
henrikschroder wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why worry? The meat industry is completely disgusting, and raising animals for slaughter is morally bad. The sooner we can disrupt this industry and stop killing animals, the better. I have zero remorse for the farmers that will be impacted. I just had a fantastic dinner with a perfectly fried beef tenderloin steak. It was delicious. If this could be made cheaper, faster, better, and without having to kill a cow ever…

While I generally agree with you about a lot of the industry practices and conditions, that isn't really the fault of the minimum wage farmers and factory workers who are just thankful for any job. My point was more around the fact that, much like trucking, farming employs a large number of people in the US who generally are on the lower income side. If you take these jobs away, we have a larger national issue of wha…

I get that, and it's the biggest challenge we'll face in our times.

But I really can't feel bad about it, in the same way I don't feel bad about the coal industry going belly-up, or the rest of the fossil fuel industry. I'm sorry, but it has to change. It is not sustainable.

Re: Startup Serves Up Chicken Produced From Cells in Lab

#140

Post by lolwaaaat »

jimmywanger wrote: post #136
lolwaaaat wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think "raw" meat is unprocessed? That's cute.

> You think "raw" meat is unprocessed? Your reading comprehension needs work. And compared to tofu, a cut of raw meat is far less processed.

That's false and, frankly, quite a naive assertion which is easily refuted.
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