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Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

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Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#611

Post by imgabe »

presto8 wrote: post #546
imgabe wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you drive for Uber could you partially count the depreciation of your car (for the miles you drover for Uber) on your taxes? At least then you'd get some benefit in the form of a reduced tax bill that could offset the losses. Landlords use depreciation to have low taxable income despite being cashflow positive. I don't see why Uber drivers shouldn't be able to. They're making business use of a physical asset (thei…

My understanding is, yes, you can deduct the IRS per-mile (54 cents per mile driven) as a business expense, which will reduce the amount of taxes paid. At least one Uber driver I rode with told me he did this. In fact, not doing it would be missing out on a huge tax benefit! Example 10-mile trip: 1.25 base fare + (10 miles * 1.15 per mile) = 12.75 * 80% (driver's share) = $10.20 revenue - 5.40 deduction for mileage =…

I was thinking more like depreciating the value of your car according to whatever depreciation schedule the IRS allows, prorated by the proportion of the miles you drive for Uber.

Something like - your car cost $30,000 and depreciates over 10 years, so $3,000 per year (just making up numbers, no idea if/how the IRS depreciates a car). So you'd have a $3,000 loss in the value of the car per year until it drops to 0. If the car was used 40% of the time for business (driving for Uber) you could claim 40% of the depreciation - $1200. I guess then you'd have to separately itemize all the gas, maintenance, etc.

But if you're actually losing money on the Uber-driving endeavor when that is factored in, whatever revenue you get should be tax-free. Of course, I suppose that only works if you're an independent contractor / business, and Uber drivers fought so hard to get treated as employees instead. Oh well. Employees get screwed when it comes to taxes.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#612

Post by kelnos »

losteverything wrote: post #515

I guess most of HN never were so broke that they can't put themselves in the place of a worker who can receive a tip. Tips go directly to a person. Often a low paying or second job. It is about generosity and helping a fellow person. It's not about economic theory or even JUST how they served you. The tip -$1 or $2 or $5 gets the person a gallon of gas. A meal. A cup of coffee. It helps pay off a bill. It is savings…

I'm sympathetic, because you're not wrong. But those of us on the other side of the argument aren't wrong either.

> The tip -$1 or $2 or $5 gets the person a gallon of gas. A meal. A cup of coffee. It helps pay off a bill. It is savings for their childs prom dress. It pays for food.

I am not your employer; it should not be my job to figure out what is required to pay you a living wage. Your employer should be doing that. It sucks that they aren't. I wish I could fix that.

> One of lifes most enjoyable things is to be generous.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. And if it's so enjoyable to be generous, why isn't Uber enjoying themselves by paying drivers more? Why is it my responsibility as a rider to fill in this gap?

But yeah, I do agree that it's enjoyable to be generous. But you know what's not enjoyable? Being subject to guilt and societal pressure to tip. "Being generous" is not "being generous" unless it's completely voluntary. Tipping is not.

I donate to charitable organizations not because they ask me to or because I feel pressure to do so, but because they further causes I believe in and want to support. That generosity is something I enjoy. Tipping just makes me feel anxious and like I'm getting ripped off by having (yes, having) to pay more than the advertised price.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#613

Post by nommm-nommm »

massysett wrote: post #569
peatmoss wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important point. I hate tipping culture, but the solution isn't to not tip when you're a part of a society where certain classes of labor are reliant on tips. My solution is to tip 20% rounding up to the nearest whole dollar. I don't care how horrible service was. On Lyft, I've given lower ratings (safety) and still tipped 20%.

My solution is not to use services that have tipped workers. I do not get grocery delivery, in part because I'm not going to tip somebody when I haven't even had a chance to see if all my items were delivered. I visit full-service restaurants less because of tipping. And if tipping becomes expected on Uber, I will stop using it. I don't think this solution helps tipped workers either. But I'm not going to be guilt-tr…

I really enjoy and strongly prefer going to places where you order at a counter and eat in the dining room at your leisure. I can really relax at those places without feeling hustled and hounded.

I, too, am trying to avoid full service restaurants for the most part.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#614

Post by kelnos »

rimliu wrote: post #444
redm wrote: post #4

No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure, you just get out of the car and walk away with everyone happy. I would rather pay more for each fare and have Uber aggressively prohibit tipping. I suspect many people feel the same way and if Uber doesn't get it under control, it could be the biggest challenge they face.

> I would rather pay more for each fare However the most (at least if feels like it for me) stated reason to prefer Uber is "it's cheaper". A few also expressed the opinion that they do not care about company's culture and policies as long as they provide cheap rides.

Is it? I prefer Uber/Lyft because it's convenient (both in arranging the ride and payment) and auditable (account records) and accountable (driver and rider ratings). Being cheaper is a benefit, sure, but I'd still use it nearly as much if it cost the same as a taxi, which I rarely (if ever) used in SF before Uber, because their service level is so bad that I preferred to drive myself or suffer the discomfort, dirtiness, and trip length of Muni.

Yup, I'm merely one data point, but my POV is hardly unique.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#615

Post by kelnos »

jrohn92 wrote: post #576
seppin wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to type 10% of this, but you nailed it perfectly. "I'm doing a startup" is often a trap that allows you to justify not properly supporting yourself. Get a job, do it well, and make your startup work in the extra hours. If you can't find the time, you're not meant to be starting anything up.

By getting a job, it will interfere with what I need to do. I make my own hours, which is very important. I do 40 hrs driving and 40 hrs on my company every week. Right now I am at the tail end of the stretch and I am already starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel (funding). "Honey Badger does not give a sh*t, if it's hungry, it's hungry"

But that's the thing, though: unlike many Uber/Lyft drivers, you have chosen to put yourself into this situation. The onus is on you to figure out how to support yourself while you have no income working on your startup, not on the random people who ride in your car while you're driving for Lyft.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#616

Post by hyperbovine »

developer2 wrote: post #259
hyperbovine wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I switched to Lyft in the wake of the Susan Fowler thing, I discovered that they give you the option to tip. It made me realize that the pain point of tipping is actually feeling pressured to tip the moment the service ends . With the Lyft app I can tip (or not) later on, and I almost always do. It's not tipping that I don't like; in fact I really like tipping. With their strict no-tipping policy, it turns out…

With optional after-the-fact tipping, I'd still be concerned whether or not the fact you tipped is tracked. When you tip, is the driver individually informed? The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and buildin…

Though I disagree with the basic premise of your argument--I've never once gotten the same driver, and doubt that Lyft is building a tipping profile of me for the purpose of sharing it with them--I totally, completely agree that tipping should be replaced by living wages for service workers. But that's just not the world in which we currently live. Until such time as it is, I'm more than happy to spend a little extra since the marginal utility of my $5 Lyft tip is, presumably, way higher for the driver than it is for me.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#617

Post by ismarc »

gregmac wrote: post #505
lightcatcher wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean that it's "much easier to just pay people a decent wage"? Do you mean that it's much easier to convince companies to pay their employees more than they have to, or that it's much easier to pass higher minimum wage laws? Neither of these seem easier than "convince the public to toss in a few extra dollars when they use a lowly paid service". I see "make sure that all working people are paid fairly" as…

Keep in mind that in both US and Canada there's a different (and lower) minimum wage for 'tipped workers'. US Federal law states minimum wage is only $2.13/hr for someone that makes $30/month in tips (instead of normal minimum $7.25) [1]. If they don't make $30 in tips the employer must make up the difference. At 30 hours/week (and 4.3 weeks/month), $30/month works out to $0.23/hr, so the effective minimum wage is st…

You are grossly misrepresenting the situation and what your own link says. If wages + tips don't equal the normal minimum wage of $7.25, the employer is required to make up the difference.

They get, at worst, normal minimum wage.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#618

Post by kelnos »

yladiz wrote: post #408
redm wrote: post #4

No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure, you just get out of the car and walk away with everyone happy. I would rather pay more for each fare and have Uber aggressively prohibit tipping. I suspect many people feel the same way and if Uber doesn't get it under control, it could be the biggest challenge they face.

I'm surprised when I hear this, that tipping is so abhorrent that instead of using a service that, while maybe not perfect, is better and doesn't have significant problems within the company (e.g. sexual harassment) and the with treatment of their drivers, amongst other things, the person chooses to stick with Uber. Can someone explain this to me? What's wrong with the Lyft system where tipping is optionally given at…

> Tipping sucks, sure, but it's part of a lot of service jobs in the states that you just accept.

I don't think most people "just" accept it. I think they accept it, with extreme reservations, often with a sense of anxiety around social pressure & guilt. So I think you underestimate how much sway a service that doesn't expect/require tips might have over one that does.

Having said, that, for me, it's a combination of things. I actually don't object to Lyft's tipping culture (and like you point out, tipping is implemented as close to perfectly as possible on their platform). I use Lyft when it seems to make sense (and tip, often ~20% for shorter rides), but often I find myself seeing a 6 minute estimated wait from Lyft while Uber is saying 2 minutes. I tend to walk a lot when I can, so most of the time I use Uber/Lyft when I'm running late or don't have the time to walk, so 2 vs. 6 actually matters. Or I request a Lyft, get matched with a driver, and see an estimate for a 3 minute arrival, which stays saying "3 minutes" for 10 minutes before I cancel and go back to Uber, and a car arrives to pick me up 2 minutes later. Or there was the time where Android Pay just stopped working in the Lyft app for two weeks.

I'm really unhappy with Uber's behavior as a company (and use it less where practical), but they just offer a better product, regardless of their stance on tipping.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#619

Post by matmann2001 »

lostboys67 wrote: post #474
morgante wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's honestly why I continue to use Uber despite all the negative press. They continue to hold the line against the excessive tipping culture in America and I want to support them for refusing to give in to pressure to add a tipping option to the app. Any driver who aggressively solicits for tips automatically gets a low rating and a note from me.

"hold the line against the excessive tipping culture " you mean screwing over some poor minimum wage worker and the IRS (which when it comes down to it is you)

Let's be honest here. It's Uber's pricing that is screwing over that worker. It shouldn't be the rider's responsibility to right Uber's wrongs.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#620

Post by nommm-nommm »

sharkmerry wrote: post #568
kevin_b_er wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. The greed of the consumer prevents raising prices. Not advertising the true price is the new scheme. Tipping hides the true cost of services by forcing the customer's guilt on the ability of the employee to make a worthwhile wage. No tipping restaurants have to have higher prices and the hyper-price-conscious consumer will defer to the cheaper ones. You could make a quality argument, but on equal terms the…

Sales Taxes not being included in the price in USA is a similar tactic to hiding true cost to consumer.

Yes, it can be but sales tax is confusing in the US due to city tax, local tax (MTA in NYC, for example), county tax, state tax, etc. They are always changing too, amounts and types of items taxed. Your Big Mac costs 100s of different prices across the country. So its often easier and cheaper to just advertise the pre-tax amount (especially in national ads) and program the register to handle tax.

But you are right, it is also preferred to hide some of the costs. But, sometimes you get a place that includes taxes on the price. Very refreshing.

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