Anthony Bourdain on not having debt • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#191

Post by Thrillington » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

mdpopescu wrote: post #110

err4nt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view debt as gambling against future prosperity. It's a faustian deal you make with yourself to steal your own future earnings to use today. What a bittersweet deal (most of the time)

As a general rule, people in the future are richer than people in the past - both individually and at the society level. It is gambling, but history suggests that it generally works out.

Timescales are a bit off for that rule though. People are generally better off in a few years from now, unless they've been paying that extra prosperity to as monthly interest on their debt.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#192

Post by AnthonyMouse » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

thebooktocome wrote: post #142

marknutter wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ever argues that roads, railroads, and highways are an unfair tax burden. It's such a ridiculous straw man. The beef that most Libertarians have with government spending is with entitlement programs.

Sandy Rios, of American Family Radio, has indeed argued in the past that the Interstate Highway System was and is a waste of taxpayer dollars. So no, it's not a straw man. Some conservatives really do believe this.

> So no, it's not a straw man. Some conservatives really do believe this.

Weak man vs. straw man.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/12/weak-men-are-superweap...

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#193

Post by AlwaysRock » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:48 PM UTC

M_Grey wrote: post #162

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

I'd feel better about paying my taxes if they were well-spent, and not patently wasted on wars, cronyism, and the latest political whims. Some of that is to be expected, but the degree of waste in the US system is appalling and seemingly nearly total. After all, if you take pride in fresh new road surfaces and good schools, you also have to take some responsibility for our foreign policy.

I owe 3.5k this year and I wish I could give that directly to a social program that would do more good with it. Or at least donate it to the Chicago Public School system.

It is frustrating to pay taxes to a in debt state and a in debt country.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#194

Post by rsync » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

"Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind."

I think there's an important distinction to be made between two different sorts of "high taxes".

One is a high absolute amount of taxes - you made millions of dollars in a year and therefore your absolute tax payment is relatively quite high.

The other is a high percentage tax rate.

I don't mind paying a high absolute rate of taxes - I think that is the scenario in which one can think fondly of all the things that government provides - things like:

"It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school."

However, there comes a point in percentage tax rates where basic fairness comes into question. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I think an effective tax rate north of 40% is getting in the danger zone.

As a US citizen who lives in California, in Marin, and owns land, my effective tax rate is 50%, give or take, and I think that's a problem. It's very difficult to rationalize that every 60 minutes I work, ~30 minutes of that work product is appropriated by government.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#195

Post by adrice727 » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #21

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

I worked for the federal government for ~6 years (DoD). It's much worse than most people imagine.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#196

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

unixhero wrote: post #157

coconut_crab wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam, ranks 110 or so in transparency index

Corruption Perception Index is a better measure of corruption.

Both indexes have a tendency of growing on countries that are fighting corruption, and shrinking on the ones where people can get away with it.

The GINI coefficient may be a better proxy than those targeted measurements.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#197

Post by KKKKkkkk1 » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

If you enjoy paying taxes, here's an offer: Why don't you pay some of mine? The point is, folks who advocate for higher taxes aren't being altruistic, they're advocating for everyone else to be paying more.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#198

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #189

padobson wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of living a debt-free existence, I have to disagree. In the monetary policy environment we live in, having debt is the most sensible way to build wealth. Dollars are a terrible store of value. Dollars invested in a savings account are almost as bad. Securities, real estate, and inventory are much better. Dollars invested in education and advertising to multiply the value of securities, real estate and…

A lot of people get confused when talking about debt just because types of debt are different. Using debt to generate income = good. Using debt to buy stuff you can't afford = bad. The first pays itself back while the latter does not. When somebody like Dave Ramsey is talking about debt, he's talking about paying off credit card bills, car loans, student loans, mortgages - payments that you're making that leave you p…

I resonate strongly with this position but don't think the media will ever be able to express the nuance well. I explain to people about the difference between borrowing to buy a farm tractor that lets you double the money per acre you can get on your farm, vs borrowing to buy a super elite electric car that only drives you to the same places (and usually at the same speed) as your old gas car did.

One debt increases your annual revenue for as long as you own it, the other increases your annual car expense as long as you own it (decreaing your revenue).

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#199

Post by tcfunk » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:55 PM UTC

dota168 wrote: post #185

refurb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

Have you been outside the US? You are living in the USA bubble. Go to a 3rd world country and you'll understand what government corruption and waste is.

This is not a valid argument. If one thing is bad and another is worse, it does not make the bad thing good.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#200

Post by teekert » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

I also don't like taxes but I like seeing lepers in the street, driving over holes in the road, having my kids acquire debt to go to school etc even less. Paying taxes is completely selfish.

To the people saying that debt is not so bad, please realize that you get that debt from a private institution that subsequently collects interest. Said institution does not have to work for this interest, it merely has to sign your debt into existence. The monetary system we have now, where money is always created as debt by a group of elites with specials rights is not fair.