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Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

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Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#121
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country is that?

Vietnam, ranks 110 or so in transparency index

>ranks 110 or so in transparency index

Those "transparency indexes" tend to reflect the biases (cultural and political) and the interests of the major contributors to the organizations that produce them (including organizations like OECD).

And unlike measurable data, where you can double check, here you have to agree not just on the methodology, but on the validity of various sources, self-reporting (which is often used as a proxy), etc.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you say that about whatever city that you live in? Many people voluntarily live in their choice of city or state (in the U.S.). If you don't like that government's priorities, you could move elsewhere.

What if you don't like any cities or states? With charities you can always make your own. Don't have that option in your system. I'm not American, but aren't some taxes that go to education/welfare/healthcare on a federal level? If so, are you going to tell people to leave the country? It's very expensive and for many practically impossible. Besides, is the goal not here to spend the money as efficiently as possible?…

You are correct---in your system, someone can be surrounded by a society that is fundamentally positive because no one is wanting for basic needs, and leverage that fact to be wealthy because they don't have to worry about a certain class of problems, yet not contribute back into the system that has allowed their wealth to accumulate. This is as much a choice as a welfare recipient who could work, but is choosing not to. Arguably, that society isn't really possible, though, since given the option of not contributing back into the system, there is a high probability that those who accumulate wealth would choose not to do so, especially if it's inherited, and so even if you could trip into a society that met basic needs for everyone through the wealthy choosing to contribute, it would likely vanish in the span of a generation or two. Evidence for this being that we've had societies where the wealthy could choose not to contribute to their society for millenia, and meeting basic needs is something we've only started brushing at in the last century.

By the way, no, the goal here is not to spend the money as efficiently as possible. The primary goal is to succeed at something that is known to improve society as a whole and, perhaps, will allow that society to produce goods better and more effectively. The secondary goal is to do so as efficiently as possible. This is why you don't find much support in countries with nationalized healthcare for abolishing nationalized healthcare; instead, the support is for reforming it or making it more efficient or less corrupt or what have you. The primary goal met, it's on to the secondary goal. Before government was used as a vehicle for achieving many of these things, they simply weren't an option for most.

Government is where we come together as a people and say "yes, this is the cost that we have decided is worth paying in order to have the society that we want". That encompasses both sides---taxes ("what is worth paying") and policy ("how we achieve the society that we want"). Let's grant that there might be less competition and less efficiency (arguable), but there is greater universality, and I would say there are goals where that universality is far more important than the tradeoffs.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this recently when I filed my taxes. Maybe if they provided some kind of itemized receipt? "You paid $x in taxes. This was distributed as $y to infrastructure, $z to education, $w to defense" etc.

They do this in the UK

Though there is some controversy over how it is presented:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29898083

The story contains an image of what they provide, as well as some suggestions for making it better.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#124
> I didn’t put anything aside, ever. Money came in, money went out. I was always a paycheck behind, at least. I usually owed my chef my paycheck: again, cocaine. Like I said, until I was 44, I never even had a savings account.

Anyone who has ever spent any of their money on class 'A' drugs is not in any position to dispense any type of wise financial advice.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#125
post #96
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but it strikes me that there is safety and opportunity in behaving badly when the bulk of your peers are swept away in an orgy of debt fuelled spending. Ten years ago I bought a small flat in London to live in. I paid a respectable deposit and didn't over-leverage. We were at the end of decade long property boom, there were huge concerns about the level of borrowing and ability to repay,…

I mostly agree with you, but I think you missed one problem. Suppose you bought the 3 bed house. You'd have big mortgage payments to make every month. It all depends on when you sell the house. Too early and you would be sitting there watching the market increase further. You never really know when the market will turn, and if you left it too late you could be in negative equity with no way to sell the house and tryi…

A three-bedroom house means the poster could have rented one or two of the bedrooms out. Tenants are of course their own sort of risk but that's a common strategy for young home-owners looking to reduce their monthly payments.

I'm not castigating the guy because I think the prudence you're advocating for is far more wise than getting oneself into a financial jam, but there are ways to approach a risk like a house payment and reduce it.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#126
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually the point. Fire and police and roads are all very, very cheap compared to wars, nation building, etc. People are tired of paying for things that they don't agree with. I can't say that I blame them too much.

What do you see nation-building as, if things like roads aren't part of it?

I think they mean nation building as trying to install certain governments in countries on the other side of the world, toppling heads of state, etc.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#127
post #94
post #47

There was a point where financing the government was a patriotic act. People would give other people War Bonds as presents. But now the patriotic thing is to trash talk which ever party is in the administration and wax poetic about governmental corruption. You can't have it both ways. You can't say no to financing your government and scorn corruption. Either you're okay paying for your government, you're okay with so…

The government needs better PR frankly, instead of allowing itself to be a punching bag all day. Nobody can even imagine how many things the government and your tax dollars provide.

There's a lot of talk with respect to the US Democrat/Republican split on how Democrats are terrible at highlighting when government helps people (because it seems to cheapen the process or some silly issue.)

http://democracyjournal.org/arguments/keep-it-simple-and-tak...

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#128
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

Proudly paying your taxes doesn't mean you don't recognize that the government may not be the most efficient organisation around. It doesn't mean that you agree with the decisions being made. It only means you agree that something between X and Y% of taxes needs to be paid to operate a country smoothly. And I've delegated the decision of what exactly to spend it on to others, so I accept that I can't always be 100% h…

Companies do the exact same thing.

Yeah, but companies waste their own money. Not mine. Unless I'm a shareholder, I could care less if they flushed cash down the toilet.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#129
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you don't like any cities or states? With charities you can always make your own. Don't have that option in your system. I'm not American, but aren't some taxes that go to education/welfare/healthcare on a federal level? If so, are you going to tell people to leave the country? It's very expensive and for many practically impossible. Besides, is the goal not here to spend the money as efficiently as possible?…

The idea that people would spend as much on charity as they do on taxes is one of the most clearly bunkum libertarian fantasies out there. Private charities come nowhere near modern government levels of welfare, and never have (that's why we have modern levels of welfare).

You do realize that government actually doesn't earn the money but takes it away from others that earn it.

It's not as if with government we have more money. So all that matters is efficiency and if a charity is more efficient than a government, why is there no state where you can choose whom to give (at least part of) your taxes?

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#130
post #21
post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

The problem (IMO of course) is that there is no better and attainable option.

For in the current system, you broadly have the choice of:

1. Wasting your money on exotic weaponry and wars of expansion whilst starving the populace and enabling a small subpopulation of rich cheaters to dodge their fair societal debt

2. Wasting money on enabling social programs that allow a large subpopulation of poor cheaters to dodge their fair share of societal debt and hinder the rich from buying a second yacht.

I believe South Park refers to this as "Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich."

Sadly, in both cases, the upper middle class ends up footing most of the bill.

The past 2 months have illustrated the sort of alternative that can actually get elected here. Do you find this encouraging? I don't.

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