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Reverse Culture Shock

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Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#131

Post by masklinn »

donw wrote: post #114
bane wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experiences in Asia come mostly from Korea. Over the last decade or so I've noticed the grocery stores and selection there have dramatically improved such that I can usually find a reasonable analog for just about anything I want (so long as I don't get too fancy or want good cheese). But I've never lived there long enough to probably need that one thing. I think also, I've been married into Korean life so long, m…

Fruit in Tokyo is both ludicrously overpriced and, in general, mediocre. Japanese people prefer soft fruit, so crunchy apples are very hard to come by. Many common ingredients in Western cooking don't exist -- I would kill for a supply of fresh jalapeños, or potatoes suitable for baking (you only find two varieties of potato in Japanese supermarkets). I can't legally have a barbecue, either, so it's really hard to es…

> I can't legally have a barbecue, either, so it's really hard to escape from fried meat here.

Isn't Yakiniku fairly common? Though a personal shichirin would probably impossible if you're in Tokyo itself, just as having a BBQ usually isn't an option if you're in Manhattan or London "proper" unless you have a huge top-floor condo.

Japanese cooking definitely seems to be on the fast side though, despite the long and extensive prep'.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#132

Post by bandrami »

CalChris wrote: post #43
bandrami wrote: post #3

Yup. I'm a "trailing spouse" for an American diplomat, and this is so true. One thing that always, always, always happens to Americans when we repatriate is the "grocery store freakout". At some point, you will go to a grocery store, and freeze. "Man..." you'll keep saying, "Americans really love breakfast cereal..."

But when I lived in Geneva, it was the opposite. They had an entire freaking shopping aisle for bricks of chocolate. I'd never seen a brick of chocolate before let alone an entire aisle of it. Trader Joe's has these bricks now.

Fair, and in Scandinavia you'll find a similarly huge selection of fish pastes, or in Sri Lanka of tea. But having been to many countries in the world, I don't think even the largest grocery store I've been to outside of the US is the size of even a normal suburban Giant.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#134

Post by piceas »

I love it. "Home has changed. You have changed. You have adapted to another culture and now you must readapt." Don't be bitter about it. Get on with it.

The advice that "People at home aren’t as interested in hearing about your foreign experience as you are in telling them about it" also resonates with me and can be a tough pill to swallow. In some ways it's similar to oversharing upon returning from a holiday. It shouldn't hurt too much when most people don't care how amazing or difficult it was. When your foreign experience is part of your identity it can be easy to take that disinterest personally. If you look/sound/act at first impression as the other culture it can feel like every introduction starts with satisfying the person's curiosity. When that curiosity is immediately followed by disinterest the incongruity can be jarring. For my partner's reentry I suggested that we have a short one sentence answer explaining where we were so that the conversation could move on quickly and save the rest for those who are genuinely interested.

I think wtbob's comment that "It's not about better/worse; it's about different." is very helpful. There is a time to compare and denounce the absolute and relative merit of an aspect of a culture but it can be unhelpful if those criticisms are just an outlet for frustration.

For the cross-culturally mobile parents in the crowd please please please consider that your children's experience might be very different than your own. The Reverse Culture Shock - Managing Reverse Culture Shock page [1] has lots of practical advice. I also highly recommend reading Third Culture Kids : Growing Up Among Worlds [2]. I would also recommend it to those who are reflecting upon their own childhood intercultural experience.

[1] https://www.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56076.htm [2] http://www.crossculturalkid.org/third-culture-kids-excerpts/

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#135

Post by thatcat »

KJP191 wrote: post #129
jessaustin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That explains too much... why aren't high-margin products in other developed nations' grocery stores treated the same way? Or, if they are, why isn't breakfast cereal one of them? Perhaps because Americans really love breakfast cereal ?

My theory is milk. Breakfast cereal is designed to be covered in milk, but compared to North America and Western Europe, milk and milk products are far less popular in most of the world. I think I remember reading that there's even a biological reason, ethnic Europeans have some enzyme for digesting milk (and cheese etc) that others lack. This would imply that other milk-drinking Western countries would also eat a lo…

Yes, Scandinavian genetics are more likely to express code for lactase and so less likely to develop lactose intolerance.

US also subsidies milk production to keep prices reasonable, which may have a side effect of increasing the amount consumers will pay for associated products like cereal.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#136

Post by pjc50 »

distances wrote: post #116
vacri wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Greek friend of mine said of the Greek diaspora here in Melbourne that when they came out post-war, they became 'hyper-Greek' as a coping mechanism, embracing their culture more fully. They then travel back to Greece for whatever reason, and complain about how decadent it's become. Of course, he says, Greece hasn't really changed, it's just that now the ex-pats are seeing it through the lens of being 'hyper-Greek'…

I've heard this is indeed often the case, emigrants embracing their home culture in a more fundamental way. Maybe the imagined state of one's culture is often that of the grandparents' time, always a bit behind of the reality.

British expats certainly are notorious(+) for doing this - epitomising some kind of Imperial Britain that may not even have existed when they were born.

The most ridiculous subset are those people who live in Spain and complain about "immigrants" in Daily Mail comments. They may be in for a surprise if the hard Brexit they supported happens and they lose their right to reside in Spain because the UK won't guarantee residence for Spanish nationals.

(+) Not All Expats

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#137

Post by openfuture »

nickbauman wrote: post #44

A German-born American with 11 years total living in Germany. Almost all of it with the iron curtain in place. A white guy, I now live in a neighborhood that's 3/4 black, 10% Hmong for 16 years, I feel very normal being permanently out-of-place. In Germany I am the "Amerikanischer". Here it's "he's German". But I'm permanently alone in a crowd, too. Always on the outside looking in. Suspicious of the herd. Skeptical…

I relate to what you are saying. I started feeling like this after I came back to reality from the world of warcraft, where I spent 2 years from age 11.

> But I'm permanently alone in a crowd, too. Always on the outside looking in. Suspicious of the herd. Skeptical of consensus. Circumspect. Cantankerous at times. I am, simply, permanently, "the other".

This is exactly where I ended up, there's no going back now, no 'home' where I feel I belong. Biggest contributing factors were hitchhiking across the planet and experiencing Ayahuasca. But I also feel that just understanding the importance of free software as a political right puts a huge rift between me and the people I meet.

A society is built on shared assumptions, a mutual understanding if you will. When you reject an assumption required for participation then you stand alone and the understanding is no longer mutual.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#138

Post by literallycancer »

masklinn wrote: post #131
donw wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fruit in Tokyo is both ludicrously overpriced and, in general, mediocre. Japanese people prefer soft fruit, so crunchy apples are very hard to come by. Many common ingredients in Western cooking don't exist -- I would kill for a supply of fresh jalapeños, or potatoes suitable for baking (you only find two varieties of potato in Japanese supermarkets). I can't legally have a barbecue, either, so it's really hard to es…

> I can't legally have a barbecue, either, so it's really hard to escape from fried meat here. Isn't Yakiniku fairly common? Though a personal shichirin would probably impossible if you're in Tokyo itself, just as having a BBQ usually isn't an option if you're in Manhattan or London "proper" unless you have a huge top-floor condo. Japanese cooking definitely seems to be on the fast side though, despite the long and e…

Couldn't you do it on the balcony though?

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#139

Post by masklinn »

literallycancer wrote: post #138
masklinn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't legally have a barbecue, either, so it's really hard to escape from fried meat here. Isn't Yakiniku fairly common? Though a personal shichirin would probably impossible if you're in Tokyo itself, just as having a BBQ usually isn't an option if you're in Manhattan or London "proper" unless you have a huge top-floor condo. Japanese cooking definitely seems to be on the fast side though, despite the long and e…

Couldn't you do it on the balcony though?

Technically yes[0], legally not necessarily, and practically you'd be bothering your neighbours which probably isn't recommended and may get you in trouble with your landlord as well.

[0] assuming you have a balcony which isn't always the case

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#140

Post by literallycancer »

ido wrote: post #122
mahyarm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America should not be comparing itself to developing nations, but other developed nations. In that they fall short in many things.

I've lived in Austria for (almost) 8 years and Germany for a bit over 3 - I really like both for many reasons and neither could really be accused of being a developing nation. Wheelchair accessibility is simply not a thing here, not even in Vienna and Berlin (let alone small towns or rural areas). E.g. you will often find the bathrooms in restaurants or cafes to not be accessible without going up or down a bunch of s…

I suspect this is because most European cities are extremely old by American standards, pretty much any street is going to have 100 years old buildings, some have the cultural heritage status, so if you want to make any changes, you need to get a permit, and sometimes making the building wheelchair accessible would cost more than to tear it down and build it again.
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