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Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

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Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#411

Post by yladiz »

developer2 wrote: post #324
wpietri wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this is fraud? At least in SF, I'm pretty sure the standard deal is that the drivers pay for the cab regardless of what they get in fares. Cabs were a cash business for a hundred years, after all. I think the deal with credit card machines in the cabs is that the cab companies see it as a revenue source. I know cab drivers grumble about the cost of using them. It makes sense to me that Stripe is chea…

Here, it is legally mandated that cab drivers use the company-provided credit card machine to process all credit card transactions. The company takes 7% of all such transactions. Yes that percentage is ridiculously high, but it is mandatory per regulation. It is unacceptable for drivers to personally process credit card transactions, whereby they retain access to the credit card number. Forget the underhanded fraud t…

Why does it really matter if they use Stripe or the machine in the car, besides that it's technically against the law? If you're worried about fraud, okay, it's possible but pretty unlikely and generally if you notice anything you can dispute it with your credit card company. 7% adds up, since it's an extra 4% on top of the usual 3% fee when using services like Stripe, which is understandably hurting a taxi driver doubly since they already pay for their car lease per day regardless of the number of fares. Also take into consideration that while there are a lot of immigrant taxi drivers, many are also citizens and it's not simply immigrants that are going to do what you consider shady. If you're worried about fraud, put some notification of activity on your phone or email when a transaction runs and if you see something weird, report it. Don't be afraid of the boogeyman that doesn't even really exist.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#412

Post by mattmanser »

nailer wrote: post #393
borplk wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As a non-American tipping seems like such a crappy concept to me. Why should service providers be subject to arbitrary decisions of random customers? A service has a price. Either it is provided adequately and you are happy with it in which case you pay the full damn price for it and move on with your life. Or there's a specific problem in which case you can complain specifically and ask for a discount or re…

As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport t…

When you think about it a bit more it doesn't actually seem reasonable.

What shop do you know of where they'll let you choose food, take a bite and then pay what you feel it's worth? Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco.

Sometimes I buy fruit and it goes bad too fast. That's life. Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free? Because there's a significant minority of people who will always find fault just so that they don't have to pay.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#413

Post by yladiz »

developer2 wrote: post #267
dawnerd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deleted my Uber account over all the bad press and a few bad rides last couple months. There's definitely a trend for the drivers to be either really really bad at driving, or super aggressive with tips. Do drivers really expect people using a cashless system to... carry cash? I actually had one driver accepts tips using stripe.

Taxi drivers in my city are notorious for, at least in my experience, attempting to swipe your credit card with Stripe on their personal cell phones. Not just for the tip, but for the entire fare. They openly commit fraud against their company by trying to steal the fare for themselves without reporting it to their company. I've refused to pay for, and reported to their company, 4 separate drivers in the past 2 years…

So it's okay to refuse to pay for a service that's already been rendered to you because they don't follow the law to the T and charge your card in a different way. Get off your moral high horse, pay for the cab fare, report the driver after, and report it to your credit card company. Unless you're a cop, you really aren't in a position to enforce a law and you're also breaking the law if you walk out of a cab without paying.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#414

Post by dnautics »

developer2 wrote: post #259
hyperbovine wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I switched to Lyft in the wake of the Susan Fowler thing, I discovered that they give you the option to tip. It made me realize that the pain point of tipping is actually feeling pressured to tip the moment the service ends . With the Lyft app I can tip (or not) later on, and I almost always do. It's not tipping that I don't like; in fact I really like tipping. With their strict no-tipping policy, it turns out…

With optional after-the-fact tipping, I'd still be concerned whether or not the fact you tipped is tracked. When you tip, is the driver individually informed? The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and buildin…

Some answers (specifically, addressing the situation with Lyft):

> When you tip, is the driver individually informed?

No, not directly. Yes, indirectly. You get a ride summary at the end of the day. Backtracking who tipped what takes effort. Even so, sometimes people tip when they open their app back up (or through the email) which can present a lag... I've gotten "x tip from day y" additions to my ride summary days or even weeks later.

Bottom line: If you have 15-20 rides a day you're not going to check unless it was memorable. Over the course of a year and half I checked maybe five times. Once, when I drove the guy who owned the world's second tallest yacht. Another time, when I drove a group of stanford students from north beach back to campus. One of the passengers threw up in the car four times (but I was super prepared with emesis bags), so I saved the guy who ordered the lyft the $150 cleanup fee. He tipped me $20.

Honestly, a perceptive driver will be able to tell if you tip within the first few moments of your entering the car. There are socioeconomic trends. I once picked up a valet at a fancy restaurant in San Diego. We chatted about who tips and who doesn't. Soccer moms in their minivans tip. Tesla and Porche drivers almost never tip. Are you picking up someone working in the service industry? They're almost guaranteed tippers. Is someone a lyft/uber driver? Almost guaranteed to tip too.

> The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip?

Yes, but it's unrealistic. Over the course of a year and a half approximately 10,000 distinct people rode in my car. Only about 10-15% of my rides had a tip. Do you think I knew exactly which 10% were tippers?

> Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and building a (negative) profile for you. Do they charge you more on subsequent rides to compensate for your perceived poor history?

They won't charge you more on subsequent rides.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#415

Post by UweSchmidt »

iLoch wrote: post #207
arebop wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Uber traditionally operates on the service-included model. That was very well established before some drivers agitated for a change. Since then, Uber has adopted an inconsistent policy […

> There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Is this a joke? Not only is it not universal, it's not even customary. The agreement you have with the restaurant is this: you sit down, are served, eat food, and pay. Baseline service…

It seems customary enough in the US that in the movie Reservoir Dogs hardened criminals berated one of their own because he "didn't believe in tipping" the waitress. This brilliant scene is on Youtube, in case anyone needs Steve Buscemi's take on iLoch's comment as a relief from this subthread.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#416

Post by yxmayt »

grecy wrote: post #352
redm wrote: post #4

No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure, you just get out of the car and walk away with everyone happy. I would rather pay more for each fare and have Uber aggressively prohibit tipping. I suspect many people feel the same way and if Uber doesn't get it under control, it could be the biggest challenge they face.

As a non-American this is how I feel about tipping in general. It's so much easier to just pay people a decent wage, include it in the cost of things and then not have the pressure of tipping. That, and tipping is akin to having paid servants. i.e. " if you do a good job, and if I feel like it, I might give you some of my wad of cash. Or not, sucker.". (Of course, I do tip because the servers rely on it, I just don't…

As an American living in China, I feel the same way. I also use Didi almost every day. It's so easy to pay too (using WeChat, AliPay, etc.), and there's no expectation of tipping. Kind of like a "black box" view of the payment process. It's even better than using regular taxis from the standpoint of giving feedback too. If I took a regular taxi without using Didi, there's almost no way of leaving feedback, other than calling the taxi company, which wouldn't do much. At least with the app, I might get a coupon to use on a future ride.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#417

Post by collyw »

italicbold wrote: post #400
nailer wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport t…

pro tip: in london the service charge rarely goes to staff. service charge is not the same thing as a tip, which should usually be cash if you wish it to go to the waiter.

So is it obligatory to pay the service charge? If not, then I would prefer to deduct it and offer the same amount as a tip.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#418

Post by nailer »

mattmanser wrote: post #412
nailer wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport t…

When you think about it a bit more it doesn't actually seem reasonable. What shop do you know of where they'll let you choose food, take a bite and then pay what you feel it's worth? Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco. Sometimes I buy fruit and it goes bad too fast. That's life. Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide y…

>> for jobs where the service makes a significant difference

> this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco.

This is irrelevant. See quote from comment you're replying to.

> Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free?

No, the waiter still gets paid.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#419

Post by nailer »

italicbold wrote: post #400
nailer wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport t…

pro tip: in london the service charge rarely goes to staff. service charge is not the same thing as a tip, which should usually be cash if you wish it to go to the waiter.

Depends on the place. You can always ask staff if the service charge goes to them or is taken by management.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#420

Post by gamache »

Lyft offers in-app tipping, well after getting out of the car. Convenience is what people want, and Lyft makes it convenient to tip the driver whereas Uber makes it convenient to not tip the driver.

I'm amazed so many people still use Uber, not even because of the rotten company culture and business practices, but because of the user experience.

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