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Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

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Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#141

Post by arebop »

iamaelephant wrote: post #74
untog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast when wages are so low. Bartenders are typically paid next to nothing and depend on tips, whereas in Europe they are paid a decent amount and don't need tips to get by. Unfortunately US politics means this won't change any time soon. Evidently it's simpler for every American to carry around spare dollar bills every day than it is to pass meaningful legislation.

If Americans would stop tipping then the current wages would become untenable and the restaurants and bars would lose staff. They would need to increase wages (and prices) accordingly. This is something the American people have the power to change without legislation.

In a sense you are right, but practically speaking individuals can't morally unilaterally defect from tipping. When nearly everyone agrees that 15% is the tip for normal performance, and one person leaves 0% for normal performance, that one person is free-riding and effectively hurting an innocent victim.

One practical solution would be to close the minimum wage loophole for tipped employees. The difference between the two minima is the presumptive value of the normal tip, so this is a means by which you can coordinate an instant and universal change from relying on tips to having no reliance on tips. It's not exactly ideal, given that everyone knows waiters typically make a lot more in tips and evaded tax than that difference, but it is at least consistent and nominally fair.

I am not sure what other practical solutions you might have in mind.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#142

Post by ryandrake »

blhack wrote: post #89

I'd love if an economist of somebody with a better financial background could comment on this: When you're giving a tip, you're effectively giving money to the people who own the company (or participate in profit sharing). Tips allow employers to pay their employees under market rate. By paying enough tip to bring the employee's wage up to the market rate, you are subsidizing the company's profit, not the employees p…

Yea, I don't get where this idea came from that tipping is either good for the employee or good for the customer. The employee is getting paid a crappy wage and the customer is being guilt-tripped into making up for it. The only winner is the employer.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#143

Post by dawnerd »

cortesoft wrote: post #109
dawnerd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deleted my Uber account over all the bad press and a few bad rides last couple months. There's definitely a trend for the drivers to be either really really bad at driving, or super aggressive with tips. Do drivers really expect people using a cashless system to... carry cash? I actually had one driver accepts tips using stripe.

I wonder if this varies by region? I ride with uber quite a bit here in Los Angeles, and I have never once been asked for a tip. I wonder what makes it different?

It might be in really tourist-heavy areas like Vegas and Orlando (where my bad encounters have been).

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#144

Post by cortesoft »

iamaelephant wrote: post #74
untog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast when wages are so low. Bartenders are typically paid next to nothing and depend on tips, whereas in Europe they are paid a decent amount and don't need tips to get by. Unfortunately US politics means this won't change any time soon. Evidently it's simpler for every American to carry around spare dollar bills every day than it is to pass meaningful legislation.

If Americans would stop tipping then the current wages would become untenable and the restaurants and bars would lose staff. They would need to increase wages (and prices) accordingly. This is something the American people have the power to change without legislation.

How would they organize that sort of collective action? There are lots of people already who don't tip, but it hasn't changed anything. I can't control what the guy next to me does, only what I do. If I stop tipping, it only hurts the person serving me - it doesn't change the tipping culture.

I always find these sorts of arguments vexing - people act as if we can just 'decide' as a society to change something, and it is that simple. I can't 'decide' for society to do anything, unless we organize, coerce, and perhaps legislate.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#145

Post by cortesoft »

arebop wrote: post #141
iamaelephant wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Americans would stop tipping then the current wages would become untenable and the restaurants and bars would lose staff. They would need to increase wages (and prices) accordingly. This is something the American people have the power to change without legislation.

In a sense you are right, but practically speaking individuals can't morally unilaterally defect from tipping. When nearly everyone agrees that 15% is the tip for normal performance, and one person leaves 0% for normal performance, that one person is free-riding and effectively hurting an innocent victim. One practical solution would be to close the minimum wage loophole for tipped employees. The difference between t…

I saw your reply right after I made mine... finally someone else who understands the problem of collective action!

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#146

Post by nunez »

iamaelephant wrote: post #72
nunez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I treat tips the same way that sales managers treat commissions. (I wouldn't be surprised if that's the model it came from, actually.) If you pretend to care about me and my company while we eat at your restaurant (or whatever) and do all that you can to make the experience a good one for us, then we will tip you well and we will more than likely come back. 20% is usually my minimum, but I've tipped 50-100% sometimes…

So even when someone treats you like shit (your words) you still give them more than you owe? Why?

Because getting paid $2.15/hr is garbage

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#147

Post by [deleted] »

hamandcheese wrote: post #69

> Then I’ve discovered first-hand that more and more Uber riders are calling ahead to ask for your destination to see if it’s “worth it” to pick you up. When I use Uber the first question it asks is the destination. I assume this is seen by the driver, no? Why would they have to call?

[deleted]

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#148

Post by quickConclusion »

mod wrote: post #140
quickConclusion wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cook in the kitchen gets no tip. Unlikely to be appreciated, gets no share of the tip, and could make my dish a delight, or spit in it. The guy/girl says "i'm gonna be your waiter tonight", and that's the last time you see them, others bring the dishes and clean the table. And by law, they cannot share the tip. When I pay for service, I'd like the employer and the market to figure out for me what's a fair wage. D…

> And by law, they cannot share the tip. That's absolutely not true.

You forced me to check my sources. Thank you. I cannot just trust my memory.

Looks like the front of the house can pool their tips in many states in the USA indeed. But according to Nolo, they cannot pool with people who typically get no tips.

"Only employees who regularly receive tips can be part of the pool. Employees can't be required to share their tips with employees who don't usually receive their own tips, like dishwashers or cooks."

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tip-pooling-credits-s...

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#149

Post by dorfsmay »

thesmallestcat wrote: post #120
dorfsmay wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I always pay 15% tip at restaurants regardless of the service. I disagree with tipping (an after-the-fact unilateral contract), but we know that restaurants don't pay fair wages. EDIT: Following some comments here, I feel I need to add that I'm in Canada where 15% is considered "normal".

15%, regardless of the service? Don't pat yourself on the back so hard.

I'm not patting myself on the back... I'm saying that I don't want to participate in the tipping system, but we know that waiters are not paid fairly. I see the 15% as the salary that is not, but should be, included in the menu.

The fact that you thought I was getting an ego boost from tipping is the reason tipping exist, giving people an illusion of power/status.

Re: Uber Driver Tip-Hustling Schemes

#150

Post by diminoten »

brandonbloom wrote: post #133

I'm only a little surprised that nobody has suggested this, but: If the driver does something shady, just get out of the car. Immediately. Don't even give them the opportunity to apologize for it. I've had drivers call ahead to ask where I'm going. I just hang up on them, cancel the ride, then order another ride. While I'm in the car with a new driver, I report the incident using the in-app system and, on many occasi…

The problem here is your cancel reflects poorly on you in Uber's rating system.

But otherwise you're absolutely right. I have taken rides from two people who've called, asking for my destination, and I refuse to tell them. It hasn't caused me any problems in those two instances.

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