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Reverse Culture Shock

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Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#51

Post by donw »

bane wrote: post #26

I've lived in other countries a handful of times for fairly brief periods (no longer than 6 months), and it is really true. I've know some people who've spent years abroad, come back to the U.S. and nope right back out as fast as they can find employment back where they came from. It's not a statement about the quality of a place, but really having to go through an adjustment to get used to your new home and then hav…

Have lived in Japan for about eight years now, with a year-and-a-half somewhere in the middle spent bouncing around Germany.

Originally, it felt... very odd, every time I came back Stateside, especially when visiting the podunk suburb where my parents live (and incidentally, where I grew up).

Going from a city of 13 million that has quite possibly the best civic infrastructure in the world, to an aging and slowly dying town that barely breaks the 80k mark in terms of population is quite a transition.

I think the best way to explain it is... divergence? As in, my path, and the path of that place have diverged. Everything from before that point feels "natural", and everything afterwards feels strange.

Now that I've been an expat for awhile, and have bounced around quite a bit, that feeling of oddness seems to have vanished for pretty much everywhere I visit.

Sure, things are different in different places, but everything seems to fall into a slot of "this feels right" or "this doesn't suit my tastes", and there really isn't anywhere that has a perfect mix of everything.

Although I'll admit, the urge to return stateside has gotten quite a bit stronger over the years. I'm very comfortable in Japan, speak the language, and have a solid social network, but at the same time, I find myself missing a lot of the daily aspects of American life (especially the grocery stores!)

There's a really good article on the subject as well; On Being A Triangle (And Other Tips For Repatriation): http://naomihattaway.com/2013/09/i-am-a-triangle-and-other-t...

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#52

Post by renaudg »

As an EU citizen living in the UK for 7 years, worried as we all are about my Brexit bargaining chip status, the part about "involuntary/unexpected reentry" is sad and terrifying to read.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#53

Post by wtbob »

holdenc wrote: post #35

Why call it reverse culture shock? It's simply a realization that the United States not the best country in every regard. And in many regards it's failing badly. Personally, I call it the I-can't-get-healthcare shock, or the I-can-only-find-chain-restaurants-in-flyover-country shock, or the NYC-subway-is-not-as-nice-as-the-Asian-country-train-system-I-just-left shock.

> Why call it reverse culture shock? It's simply a realization that the United States not the best country in every regard.

That's completely not it at all. Culture shock is what happens when one visits another country and realises that certain things one takes for granted aren't, and other things one thinks are negotiable aren't. It's the same phenomenon which young historians have when they first read of a technologically advanced, trading culture which also casts every firstborn child into a furnace (e.g.).

Reverse culture shock is the same phenomenon, when one returns back home. It's caused by the fact that one has assimilated to one's guest culture to some extent, and upon returning home … one finds that certain things one had grown accustomed to taking for granted are not, and other things one had grown accustomed to thinking negotiable are not.

An example is the wide variety of cereals in American groceries, or the limited variety of organ meats. If one has grown accustomed to just buying 'müsli,' and one suddenly has a dozen different varieties, one claiming to be good for keto diets, one claiming to be vegan, another gluten-free, another paleo — that's a culture shock. If one has grown accustomed to making kidney pie, then returns to America and must make a conscious effort to source kidneys — that's culture shock. If one has grown accustomed to horse or whale, and returns to find that they are illegal — well, that's culture shock too.

It's not about better/worse; it's about different.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#54

Post by icefox »

bandrami wrote: post #3

Yup. I'm a "trailing spouse" for an American diplomat, and this is so true. One thing that always, always, always happens to Americans when we repatriate is the "grocery store freakout". At some point, you will go to a grocery store, and freeze. "Man..." you'll keep saying, "Americans really love breakfast cereal..."

A very unexpected reversal of that was upon returning I quickly realized that the various candy and snack food I had come to enjoy while living abroad in Norway just flat out don't exists in the U.S. While there I would pick up random stuff now and then and over time found favorites. While there is 100 feet of cereal it is only a few big companies and each individual choice is even given sometimes 3 feet of space. So I realized to my sadness (except brown cheese which I found in the little "international cheese" case) that while the American grocery stores give the impression of choice that is not as true as it seems.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#55

Post by e40 »

nickbauman wrote: post #44

A German-born American with 11 years total living in Germany. Almost all of it with the iron curtain in place. A white guy, I now live in a neighborhood that's 3/4 black, 10% Hmong for 16 years, I feel very normal being permanently out-of-place. In Germany I am the "Amerikanischer". Here it's "he's German". But I'm permanently alone in a crowd, too. Always on the outside looking in. Suspicious of the herd. Skeptical…

Hi. I feel the same way. When I was a kid, once a week my family would drive to the other side of town (the 99.99% black side) to visit my grandparents and uncle (they were the .01% white folk). I would spend all day Sunday hanging out in this area of town full of dirt poor people (just like my family there). I've never felt at ease and at home as I felt there. The people were friendlier than I could imagine. There were very, very few black people on my side of town, and it seemed weird and wrong.

When I was in my 20's at college, I would sometimes find the bad part of town and just ride around on my motorcycle. I'd do this when I was lonely and needing that "belonging" feeling.

So, from that early age on the other side of town, I've embraced otherness, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#56

Post by JacobAldridge »

The old adage is that a man can never step into the same stream twice; for it is not the same stream, and he is not the same man.

Stepping back home (in our case, moving back to Australia after 2+ years living in London) is much the same - you have changed, and home has changed, but you don't expect either to be different.

I think a big part is expectations. When we left, we were expecting something different, unusual, full of surprises (how bad is London coffee?) and annoyances. But returning 'home' you have no such expectations - you just 'expect' to slot back in.

But you've travelled the world, learned a different culture (although I don't profess that in our case it was enormously different), moved on with your life in some way ... and so too have all those people who stayed behind, and indeed the city/town/country itself. So you're surprised, and you were expecting it to be effortless. Shock!

(And it is the weird little things. For the first year I was always one block off with my directions. But thankfully the coffee was as good as I remembered it.)

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#57

Post by bane »

donw wrote: post #51
bane wrote: post #26

I've lived in other countries a handful of times for fairly brief periods (no longer than 6 months), and it is really true. I've know some people who've spent years abroad, come back to the U.S. and nope right back out as fast as they can find employment back where they came from. It's not a statement about the quality of a place, but really having to go through an adjustment to get used to your new home and then hav…

Have lived in Japan for about eight years now, with a year-and-a-half somewhere in the middle spent bouncing around Germany. Originally, it felt... very odd, every time I came back Stateside, especially when visiting the podunk suburb where my parents live (and incidentally, where I grew up). Going from a city of 13 million that has quite possibly the best civic infrastructure in the world, to an aging and slowly dyi…

My experiences in Asia come mostly from Korea. Over the last decade or so I've noticed the grocery stores and selection there have dramatically improved such that I can usually find a reasonable analog for just about anything I want (so long as I don't get too fancy or want good cheese). But I've never lived there long enough to probably need that one thing.

I think also, I've been married into Korean life so long, most of my home grocery shopping occurs at big Asian grocery stores anyways, so the experience isn't that much to translate.

What do you miss about groceries in Japan that the U.S. has?

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#58

Post by DanielleMolloy »

unsignedint wrote: post #19

Even just visiting Japan (I'm originally from Japan) causes this for me. Short stay is fine, but I feel really foreign, maybe more so than "foreigners" as people in there can detect disconnect of my appearance and mindset by my subtle deviation from expectations of how I act in there.

I have been to Japan twice for 9 months in total (originally from Germany). I didn't experience culture shock in Japan at all, but I also never really came back. Reverse culture shock can last for long. It is impossible to talk about this experience to anyone but those who have experienced Japan (or Asia) themselves for long time because most people can not even imagine how different cultures can be.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#59

Post by paulddraper »

e40 wrote: post #55
nickbauman wrote: post #44

A German-born American with 11 years total living in Germany. Almost all of it with the iron curtain in place. A white guy, I now live in a neighborhood that's 3/4 black, 10% Hmong for 16 years, I feel very normal being permanently out-of-place. In Germany I am the "Amerikanischer". Here it's "he's German". But I'm permanently alone in a crowd, too. Always on the outside looking in. Suspicious of the herd. Skeptical…

Hi. I feel the same way. When I was a kid, once a week my family would drive to the other side of town (the 99.99% black side) to visit my grandparents and uncle (they were the .01% white folk). I would spend all day Sunday hanging out in this area of town full of dirt poor people (just like my family there). I've never felt at ease and at home as I felt there. The people were friendlier than I could imagine. There w…

10,000 to 1. Very different indeed.

Re: Reverse Culture Shock

#60

Post by rebootthesystem »

Interesting article. I feel very much at home in places like the UK, Netherlands and Spain. Not so much other European cultures.

Coming back to the US, no real problems adjusting. Maybe I didn't stay in Europe long enough or popped between cultures with enough frequency to not have anything "imprint".

> the psychological, emotional and cultural aspects of reentry

I thought "reentry" was an odd word choice here. I immediately thought "mission to Mars".

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