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Keep the Internet Open

blog.samaltman.com

371–380 of 415 posts

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#371
post #291
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Asking about non-politicians on the face of it seems pointless" Except that the tone of your post implies: Republicans="evil rich people" Democrats="good folks looking out for the average Joe" I don't believe it is anywhere near that simple. It was not at all clear to me that your original post was referring to FCC regulators alone. It would have been better if that would have been explicitly stated at the outset.

I said from the outset exactly what I meant to say, and subsequently offered a qualification for upon request. Unequivocally today's Republicans are heavily weighted, not exclusive, toward classism. It is a good and proper thing that there are rich, middle, and poor. People are different, egalitarianism is P.C. nonsense, and the classes should be preserved. People aren't equal. Better people have more wealth, wealth…

> Unequivocally today's Republicans are heavily weighted, not exclusive, toward classism.

The problem is the Democrats do the same thing just on different issues.

Republicans are in the pocket of oil companies, ISPs, agribusiness and defense contractors. Democrats are in the pocket of Hollywood, lawyers, HMOs, public sector unions and, let's face it, tech companies. They're both in the pocket of Wall St.

The idea that one of them is overall worse rather than worse for a specific industry is belied by the fact that they each get ~50% of the votes.

The problem is sometimes, like with Network Neutrality, there are objectively worse and objectively better overall alternatives, but those alternatives line up across party lines. So when the Republicans get in they try to destroy network neutrality and when the Democrats get in they try to pass SOPA and negotiate the TPP.

The key is to recognize that candidates matter more than parties. Zoe Lofgren and Diane Feinstein are both California Democrats, but what a difference.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It should be a market decision, not a national government decision." Funny how you call other extremists. This is a pure ideological viewpoint that has proven to be wrong in how internet and telecommunications evolved. It was built on standards and it was built on national and international regulations. It's why you can take a phone used in Germany and use it in India. "3) Zero-rating in emerging markets (e.g. FB in…

If they don't like it, then they can use something else. Why assume they are stupid and unable to make decisions for themselves?

You are touching on an important point here. Let me give you a comparison for clarity in these markets. In Cambodia now there is an extreme increase of pesticides usage. In the market the sellers will spray toxic liquid on produce during the day to keep them looking fresh. Farmers buy and use products they really have no clue about what is. Don't get my wrong; I'm not saying they should be going organic - correct use of pesticides have advantages for farming. But it's a country with extreme corruption and in practice no laws and regulations for this. This is resulting in a lot of problems for people consuming vegetables that aren't healthy to consume. And other issues. The suppliers turn a blind eye to this because all they see it increased sales. Consumers, and the general public, have limited knowledge. That doesn't mean they are stupid, however education is very much lacking. Though it should be noted there are a lot of stupid people everywhere as well (just look at any newspaper comment section).

So regulations are important. Partly so because some markets are very difficult for an average consumers to gain full knowledge about. That's for example one of the reasons why we had a financial crisis some years back.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once they found it, they'd charge exactly one cent less.

This whole chain is just parroting reddit comments without thinking it through. You act as though there is nothing that happens with market forces other that monopoly corruption. Let's start with the fact that by market cap, Google is 590B and Comcast is 177B, so simply buying ISPs is a real possibility. You also just out of hand dismiss any other possible outcomes. So, here some off the top of my head. * Local munic…

> * Local municipalities own the last mile, making ISP competition have less of a natural monopoly.

> * Cities add regulations that don't require universal coverage which results in more competition over profitable locations. Poor or underserved areas could be subsidized in other ways if that was the goal.

The problem with these solutions isn't that they can't work, it's that they take time to implement. So first you have to do it, and then we can revisit network neutrality after you're done and there is actually vigorous competition. Doing it the other way around doesn't work, not least because it's all too easy to claim you're going to do something to create competition and then not actually do it well or at all.

> * ISPs charges a toll to all the big companies, which makes installing lines more profitable, which increases competition and results in faster more available networks overall.

That would never actually happen. It doesn't matter how profitable an ISP is, you haven't done anything to address the natural monopoly, which means that as soon as there is any real competition all the margins disappear. The second competitor knows that ahead of time and doesn't bother to make the investment, so the market remains a monopoly but now there are monopoly tolls.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#374

Net neutrality, as promoted by this article's author, requires the elimination of an open Internet because it requires a central authority which will determine who can charge what and what they can charge for.

There's already a central authority for most places - it's called Comcast/AT&T/Verizon and you don't even get a say in this authority's leadership (unlike government). By eliminating net neutrality these local monopolies now want to extend their control not only to what customers will pay but also to what internet services they wish to provide/favour.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#375
post #130

This is a difficult question. Emotionally, I am a net neutrality absolutist, but I think I can talk myself out of it, which to me means that the conversation is complex. Should the power company be able to offer you a discounted rate if you host equipment that offsets their cost (for instance: a powerwall)[1]? I think that the answer to that question is yes. Well okay, then should your ISP be able to offer you a disc…

I think a closer analogy would be: Should the power company be able to offer you a discount based on the brand of appliance you use. e.g. If you had a GE fridge in your house should you get a discount on your power usage (all other things being equal). So if you have a GE fridge you pay $0.10 per kilowatt, but a Samsung fridge will cost you $0.15 From my perspective, along the last mile a bit is a bit. The fact that…

Exactly. Think of the analogy with car brands on a street (looking at you, Tesla) and you have most peoples understanding.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#376
post #100
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's right. It will be a major shift of power from Google/Facebook/Amazon to the ISPs. Comcast could charge Google or Facebook extortionate prices to keep their websites fast. Theoretically there would be nothing stopping Comcast from completely blocking a website. Cable vs TV channel negotiations periodically end up with blackouts for the channels.

Google and Facebook now run networks larger than most major ISPs -- among the largest on the planet. Demand for Youtube and FB are so high and ubiquitous that pretty much any ISP will immediately cave in. Comcast is the most disliked company in the USA. Guess what happens when G runs a banner under each search or Youtube video mentioning that performance is bad because Comcast is blocking things, here's Brian Roberts…

Comcast should instead slowdown ads served by those websites, not the websites themselves. Then their customers don't complain but hits the opponents in the pocket book.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#377

Net neutrality, as promoted by this article's author, requires the elimination of an open Internet because it requires a central authority which will determine who can charge what and what they can charge for.

There's already a central authority for most places - it's called Comcast/AT&T/Verizon and you don't even get a say in this authority's leadership (unlike government). By eliminating net neutrality these local monopolies now want to extend their control not only to what customers will pay but also to what internet services they wish to provide/favour.

> There's already a central authority for most places - it's called Comcast/AT&T/Verizon and you don't even get a say in this authority's leadership (unlike government).

Not to contradict your basic point with a this, but, technically, you do: through government. Corporations are creatures of law, and their governance is ultimately itself governed by rules set by the chartering government, and further constrained by the governments of jurisdictions in which the corporation seeks permission to operate.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#378

I don't think anyone here is going to argue that the internet shouldn't be open. The real question behind that – and where we differ – is how the role of government fits into that. If you believe government is inherently good and necessary to enable a "basic right" like the internet, then yes, of course, government should be the one to keep the internet open. This is Sam's view. On the other hand, if you distrust gov…

> If you believe government is inherently good and necessary to enable a "basic right" like the internet, then yes, of course, government should be the one to keep the internet open. This is Sam's view.

I don't believe that the government is inherently good, but at least the government is democratically elected. The CEOs at Comcast/Verizon are not. Allowing them to exert control over internet content while participating in a market that is inherently NOT FREE is a recipe for disaster and a closed internet.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#379
post #37

Net Neutrality absolutists need to tone down their rhetoric. When NN activists say zero rating is unfair, they are speaking from an ivory tower. It is better for a poor Iraqi to get free Wikipedia even though that hurts other upstart wikis, than for poor Iraqis to have no Wikipedia at all. Once you accept this premise, you must then accept that exceptions to NN exist. Once you accept that, you must then take every si…

> It is better for a poor Iraqi to get free Wikipedia even though that hurts other upstart wikis, than for poor Iraqis to have no Wikipedia at all.

You're describing colonialism. Let me rephrase what you said: "It's better for poor Iraqi to get free access to American web services even though that hurts other upstart web services (such as Iraqi ones), than for poor Iraqis to have no web services at all."

How is this different that colonial powers sending back wealth from the colonies they conquered? If "eyeballs" are the currency of the internet, what you're describing channels those eyeballs to US companies while suppressing local competition that might keep that wealth in the countries of origin.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#380

Because of the massive amount of consolidation over the last few years, the death of Net Neutrality would be the best competitive moat imaginable for Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. While all their CEOs will make faint noises in favor of Net Neutrality, SV outspends Wall Street 2:1 on lobbying[1], the goal of which is to cement monopoly status, not to make the world a better place. Most of it goes to Republicans. Thin…

The best part is that it was all enabled by people who did not like politics and just enjoyed solving problems. Sometimes I wonder if focusing on technology is the technologist's equivalent of putting one's head in the sand.

Yup. Starting to think it's time for us to learn.
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