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How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

billmei.net

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Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#101
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between having an instructor and learning things from a book or video lectures. An instructor can correct your mistakes and give you feedback. A book or a video can't do that. Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. This is why remote study programs can be a lot more difficult to complete vs. on-site programs. EDIT: There's a known effect, discussed…

Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. This is why remote study programs can be a lot more difficult to complete vs. on-site programs. I needed the structure and social interaction of the college environment. But oddly enough, it depended on what discipline I was studying. I would not have been able to learn math and physics on my own, and those were my majors. On the othe…

My undergrad and grad were in liberal arts. After earning my PhD I took an mpa online as I was bored and able to pay for it out of pocket easily enough. One of the things the stood out for me at least is that I really missed just browsing the rare book collections and all the various microfilms and archives the library the university had. The digital pdf articles weren't really anything special. I probably learned more from the stacks than I did even while working on my dissertation. Actually my one professor one time brought me to the archives and taught me in detail all the numerous odd tricks in researching old paper documents. This has been an important lesson as I research a lot of older non-digitalized archives on personal time for side projects.

In hindsight, I have this conflict of views sort of. If automation goes the ways in which some fear, then physical institutions will provide a place for people to go instead of rioting out in the streets. To build on Salman Khan's thoughts about online education becoming the Aristotle/Plato model while the physical area acts as a place to build projects and so forth.. this could be one way to go [0]. At the same time, I've read a number of books about the atmosphere of campuses pre-1960s. Personally I feel we protest too much these days. So perhaps a focus on online campuses while limiting fewer people to the physical campuses can allow for the protests to die down and perhaps a return to the pre-1960s era. That said, I have my doubt that people are just going to be content sitting at home in mass learning.. so perhaps Salman Khan's ideal will be what emerges. Then again, it would also be ideal that we don't throw out the old way completely. It would be ideal with some smaller liberal arts colleges could be dead set in their ways in just teaching old liberal arts. Ideally without the computer so to encourage actually reading texts in whole and producing critical thinking. This would be the elite probably due to the cost of that education.

My bias yields to the hope that the majority of all jobs are destroyed by automation and that people having nothing else to do but to get phd's in the subject that they are interested in. Perhaps though the access of education will depend on the level of talent and knowledge; for the masses a khan/coursera style approach, for the mid-level an approach that is a hybrid of khan as Plato model and physical interaction for project development. The upper end, the elite would be in person primarily, small classes in cohesive campuses with lack of protests that disturb the open learning environment; of course moocs would be available to these students but the primary purpose would be more old form to develop better critical thinking skills. The moocs, even if PhD programs are developed will suffer the hive mind problems as one can see in say many social media platforms (reddit, facebook, twitter etc).

[0] A Vanity Fair panel discussion with Salman Khan and Reed Hastings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnqaenik93A

edit: added youtube link for reference.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#102
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between having an instructor and learning things from a book or video lectures. An instructor can correct your mistakes and give you feedback. A book or a video can't do that. Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. This is why remote study programs can be a lot more difficult to complete vs. on-site programs. EDIT: There's a known effect, discussed…

The Open University in the UK has a dropout rate of 87% [1] I'd imagine that's even higher for online courses. I can only speak for myself but I would not have been self-disciplined enough to complete the courses that I did during my undergraduate CS degree. The added bonus was the degree allowed me to emigrate fairly easily. [1] - https://www.timeshighereducation.com/letters/the-open-univer...

I completed an OU Maths degree three years ago (at 49), I'm not surprised the rate is high, there were a lot of people who started it without any idea of how much or what sort of work was entailed, I remember one student in the first tutorial asked if we would be learning Excel.

It does sadden me to see them struggling with the new fees, I'm not sure I would have done it at the current rates. I certainly wouldn't have taken a loan for it.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#103
post #83
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between having an instructor and learning things from a book or video lectures. An instructor can correct your mistakes and give you feedback. A book or a video can't do that. Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. This is why remote study programs can be a lot more difficult to complete vs. on-site programs. EDIT: There's a known effect, discussed…

> Some people presumably don't have a right kind of discipline to study on their own. Won't these people just "drop out" early on in their careers anyway? Someone that can't do any self directed study will not last long in almost any IT role.

I don't think it's quite the same, if you don't work today your boss will be asking you why, that pressure might not exist at home.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#104
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I meant the latter. Software is the ultimate "early plateau" career.

Isn't it standard to just go to Google when you're older and cruise it out there? Also, I think plateauing is fine.... Why do I need to move upwards when they're paying me plenty already?

"Standard"? What percentage of the industry do you think will ever work for Google?

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#105

The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…

I suspect that to have structure in your life imposed is a big factor in that. I know some very clever people that could not learn even the simplest things on their own with a book or a network connection. But put them in a classroom and they shine.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#106
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, you may, it does seem pretty crazy, doesn't it? I would say that the reason it seems crazy isn't rational , however. If I was forced to break down the reasons that this worked, I would condense it to three: 1. I focused entirely upon a single skill that is highly desired right now (Javascript / Web Development in JS/HTML/CSS/JS Frameworks). I didn't "waste" any time learning other programming languages, systems…

> being very good at turning a "no" into a "oh, ok, let's talk more." Honestly wish there was a 3 month bootcamp for this.

> Honestly wish there was a 3 month bootcamp for this.

Please, no.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#107

The author's comment on access to a mediocre/unknown university instructor for a high fee vs free access to a very good set of lectures (Khan) is one of the doubts that led me to quit my job as a college instructor. I had kind of the existential "what are we doing here?" question -- why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online? Combined with a couple of educati…

> why are students coming here and paying us money when better instruction is available for free online

I'm paying for it.

Cause I can get government assisted loans and go full time.

Also I get classmates that I can study together.

The environment of school, at least to me, enable to me to study and concentrate instead at home distracted.

Also I network with tons of people and all but one of my professors is my friend now. I have connection, hook up, network, etc... In fact I getting an internship through one of them working with the gov.

I could study online and continue as a programmer. But I rather go full time.

Also paying for a university via online degree I feel cheated. I want to see my professor face to face during office hours and ask for help and such.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#109

Oddly enough developers at my last company who were self-taught were consistently better than those that had formal CS education...

Hiring is full of so many biases, in this industry in particular. Maybe your employer is using that to their advantage by hiring good candidates other people turn away for no good reason.

Re: How I got my dream job in the tech industry without a CS degree

#110

I don't think most of us want to be "Computer Scientists" as the colleges define it. I think most of us want some kind of Software Engineering degree which is not what a Computer Science degree is. Most colleges want to teach "Computer Science" as they see it which is basically just "Math with Data Structures and other BS thrown in to make people hirable". I think at this point what needs to happen is colleges need t…

There are some 'buillshit' classes in C.S. which are highly theoretical which and has nearly zero real world applications for an average programmer but data structures is not one of them. The schools don't teach data structure just so a graduate can answer related interview questions.

  I also don't think Software Engineering is as much of a "science" as it is a "trade" ... Most of the information that must be taught is experiance based and can be given in a trade-school enviroment
I disagree. Software Engineering is not just about experience. It is not something that a master can pass to his students. It is also about constantly improving yourself and learning new things.
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