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Keep the Internet Open

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Keep the Internet Open

#271

Post by equalarrow »

jff wrote: post #148
mmanfrin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand for Youtube and FB are so high and ubiquitous that pretty much any ISP will immediately cave in. Yep, Comcast better be careful lest I leave them for the 6mbps competitors I have as options in the backwater community I live in called Berkeley, CA. I utterly fucking loathe Comcast, and yet they get thousands of my dollars because of an unspoken of oligopoly among ISPs that has grown out of the tacit agreement t…

Does Sonic.net not provide service in Berkeley? Back when I lived in the Bay Area, I switched from Comcast purely because Sonic.net isn't an utterly loathsome company. Turns out with Sonic I didn't have to reboot my modem every other week either.

Sonic is my preferred ISP. No data caps, no snooping, solid customer support. They're just happy being a great ISP. However, outside of their fiber offering, they are hobbled by AT&T copper.

I've used Sonic many different times throughout SF and while their support guys have been great, any and all problems I've had were usually a result of the copper. And AT&T couldn't care less.

Currently I have 50Mbps FTTN service from Sonic and it's rock solid. It's never been down in the few years I've had it. It does, however, still use AT&T infrastructure. But this is the only time I've used Sonic over AT&T and been pretty happy with it.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#272

Post by gnicholas »

mmanfrin wrote: post #131
dsr_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Facebook now run networks larger than most major ISPs -- among the largest on the planet. Demand for Youtube and FB are so high and ubiquitous that pretty much any ISP will immediately cave in. Comcast is the most disliked company in the USA. Guess what happens when G runs a banner under each search or Youtube video mentioning that performance is bad because Comcast is blocking things, here's Brian Roberts…

Demand for Youtube and FB are so high and ubiquitous that pretty much any ISP will immediately cave in. Yep, Comcast better be careful lest I leave them for the 6mbps competitors I have as options in the backwater community I live in called Berkeley, CA. I utterly fucking loathe Comcast, and yet they get thousands of my dollars because of an unspoken of oligopoly among ISPs that has grown out of the tacit agreement t…

Years ago I wrote: How My Hatred Of Comcast Drove Me To Buy Their Stock [1].

TLDR: I hedged the possibility of oligopolistic/monopolistic pricing practices of a company that I cannot avoid by assuming that such predatory pricing practices will benefit their stockholders.

Their standard rates in my area have doubled since I bought the stock. The stock price has tripled. I wish this experiment had ended differently, with me realizing that Comcast wasn't so bad after all, and selling the stock at cost.

1: https://medium.com/@nicklum/how-my-hatred-of-comcast-drove-m...

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#273

Post by oculusthrift »

d--b wrote: post #251

Like Altman, I am amazed that this is not inflaming the community again. In order to pass an unpopular law, you just need to try to pass it several times, until the public gets tired of protesting?

the vast majority of non techies care very little about internet freedom. if we have a nice liberal in office and they don't have much to complain about, they'll go ahead and fight for net neutrality. but it's a little hard to rile them up as much when there's a million outrageous things happening ebrty week.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#274

Post by rfrank »

saycheese wrote: post #169
throwaway399 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel was attacked nonstop and people were organizing to stop using PayPal which he is only tangentially affiliated with. Uber CEO had to stop his collaboration as Lyft started catching up for the first time in a long time. Elon also faced a lot of heat and had to qualify his statements. Negative reactions towards him were counteracted by his accomplishments and clean energy contributions. I think people should colla…

Be afraid all you want, doesn't matter to me. Thiel knew he'd be attacked, took a risk, and there's zero reason to believe he's not happy with the results; if you think Thiel cares what the "Bay Area" thinks, I'd be interested in your reasoning. Uber's not even worth covering, they're currently a cluster F$&@ waiting to happen and the idea that it was somehow born of talking with Trump is what it is. Bay Area and for…

>Bay Area and for the matter the greater tech community needs to engage the world, not withdraw from it.

> Be afraid all you want, doesn't matter to me.

One of these things is not like the other.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#275

Post by mmanfrin »

jff wrote: post #148
mmanfrin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand for Youtube and FB are so high and ubiquitous that pretty much any ISP will immediately cave in. Yep, Comcast better be careful lest I leave them for the 6mbps competitors I have as options in the backwater community I live in called Berkeley, CA. I utterly fucking loathe Comcast, and yet they get thousands of my dollars because of an unspoken of oligopoly among ISPs that has grown out of the tacit agreement t…

Does Sonic.net not provide service in Berkeley? Back when I lived in the Bay Area, I switched from Comcast purely because Sonic.net isn't an utterly loathsome company. Turns out with Sonic I didn't have to reboot my modem every other week either.

Sonic is reliant on AT&T boxes; the best I can get is dual copper, and given my distance from the box, my estimated speed is 6mbps.

Oh how I've pleaded with them to bring fiber here. I remember when they announced that Berkeley was on the shortlist about 5 years ago.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#276

Post by [deleted] »

NotreDev wrote: post #115
throwaway399 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the company. Sometimes most of it goes to democrats: Google for ex - https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00428623 Microsoft also almost 2x to dems - https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000115&l...

Appropriate that I'm responding to "throwaway399": your perspective that monopoly support is partisan lacks an appropriate level of nuance.

[deleted]

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#277

Post by tzs »

nocman wrote: post #136
cmurf wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or default service that blocks VPN, tracks everything you're doing and uses it for their benefit; and if you don't like that you can pay extra to opt out. It's really clear. Democrats: This is the customer's information. Republicans: This is the ISP's equipment, and therefore anything on it is fair game for the equipment owner to use however they want, deny service to whoever they want, for any reason they want. So d…

That's a pretty broad brush you are painting with. Do you have some hard data that says things break down so clearly along party lines? I'd particularly like to see data about non-politicians, if it is available, since the way Congress votes on such things is not necessarily driven by the way their constituents view the issue (if they are even aware of it).

I don't know how constituents in either party view things, but it seems pretty clear how members of Congress view things.

There is a bill in Congress now to strip away the rules the FCC passed last year that prevent ISPs from selling your browsing history and other personal information without your permission.

In the House, here is the list of sponsors:

Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17], Rep. Blackburn, Marsha [R-TN-7], Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22], Rep. Lance, Leonard [R-NJ-7], Rep. Scalise, Steve [R-LA-1], Rep. Latta, Robert E. [R-OH-5], Rep. Guthrie, Brett [R-KY-2], Rep. Kinzinger, Adam [R-IL-16], Rep. Johnson, Bill [R-OH-6], Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7], Rep. Brooks, Susan W. [R-IN-5], Rep. Walters, Mimi [R-CA-45], Rep. Cramer, Kevin [R-ND-At Large], Rep. Collins, Chris [R-NY-27], Rep. Costello, Ryan A. [R-PA-6], Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12], Rep. Shimkus, John [R-IL-15].

In the Senate, here is the list of sponsors:

John Barrasso (R-WY.), Jeff Flake (R-AZ.), Roy Blunt (R-MO.), John Boozman (R-AR.), Shelly Moore Capito (R-WV.), Thad Cochran (R-MS), John Cornyn (R-TX), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Ted Cruz (R-TX), Deb Fischer (R-NE), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), James Inhofe (R-OK), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Mike Lee (R-UT), Rand Paul (R-KY), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Dan Sullivan (R-AK), John Thune (R-SD), Roger Wicker (R-MS), Jerry Moran (R-KS).

Note that all 17 sponsoring Representatives and all 24 sponsoring Senators are Republican.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#278

Post by Keverw »

no_wizard wrote: post #240
confounded wrote: post #49

Because of the massive amount of consolidation over the last few years, the death of Net Neutrality would be the best competitive moat imaginable for Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. While all their CEOs will make faint noises in favor of Net Neutrality, SV outspends Wall Street 2:1 on lobbying[1], the goal of which is to cement monopoly status, not to make the world a better place. Most of it goes to Republicans. Thin…

Indeed, to keep a monopoly on services, there are large tech companies that could benefit as long as the ISPs don't get overly greedy where large companies will pay their way to better access to consumers. Zero rating is effectively the easiest way to have a company do this. T-Mobile semi-popularized the concept as being a 'pro for consumers' (great marketing spin, John Legere). While, I will admit freely, that T-Mob…

I knew he was into deregulating, which to me seems like a way to get new people/companies to enter the market if it works out.

> I have seen NO movement toward increasing competition by stripping away unreasonable local regulations on rights of way access by Ajit Pai. He not once ever proposed this, and nor since taking FCC chain, made it an agenda item to do just this.

Is that more of a local or FCC issue? I do agree he should do somthing to make it easier for people to create alternative ISPs instead of 2 to 3 choices per area like it is now.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#279

Post by awful »

bifrost wrote: post #167
guelo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "net neutrality" extremism So the NN side are the extremists. Not the side that wants to radically change the way the internet has worked for 40 years. Not the side that wants to upend the most innovative segment of the economy in favor of dinausour monoplies, radically reshaping the foundations of billions of dollars in investment and billions more in created wealth. Those guys are "conservative" right?

I think you misunderstand - NN is new, the internet worked fine on its own prior to it. NN is not a colloquial "neutrality" agreement, its a "lets force carriers to do things because we don't understand how it works". I've worked on the carrier side, on the last mile side and on the consumer side and I'm not a fan of most of the proposed legislation. We need to prevent anticompetitive practices, but thats about it.

Your characterizing of the net is disingenuous. The net never had the dollar or technical pressures it has today; television, streaming, large traffic, advertising dollars. Just because you don't see the regulatory problems doesn't mean they are not there; lawyers have been dealing with people and business for a very long time and you talk like they are a bunch of stupid noobs. Remember the Bell monopoly? They do as well as I, and you are wrong.

Re: Keep the Internet Open

#280

Post by shopkins »

brothercolor wrote: post #14

The internet is what makes Silicon Valley go round. Everyone, including Sam Altman, needs to be an activist. Asking for someone else to take point on something so fundamental is like asking Natives to take point on water prot-- wait.

Yeah I thought that was weird too. This is important! But not enough for me to make time for it!

Everyone needs to take action, even if it's the smallest possible action. Take a minute to donate to the EFF or tweet about the issue, or five minutes to write a blog post that actually rallies and informs people. What can we start building now to prepare for when this threat starts manifesting as legislation?

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