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Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

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Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#101

Post by antocv »

DennisP wrote: post #99
antocv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DAGcoin was proposed in bitcointalk thread in 2014, long before Iota was conceived and IoT fairly well known. They dont even use the same underlying technology, unless you consider DAG to be a technology rather than a data-structure. Iota nodes are written in Java, Byteball is all in Node.js As is usual in cryptocurrency world, if you want news and technical documentation on Byteball, you ask the Byteball people, do…

Yep I was referring to the data structure and consensus algorithm, not particular implementation code. The two projects clearly have more differences than I initially realized.

The consensus algorithm of both is very unlike the other.

IOTA has something like "Monte Carlo Random Walk for Tip Selection by most Proof-of-Work" while Byteball has 12 trusted witnesses to stamp and order transactions as they see them, stamp only when satisfying consensus rules, a Main Chain can then be built from all possible transaction histories (branches). No proof-of-work aside from signatures.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#102

Post by splintercell »

dogecoinbase wrote: post #81
splintercell wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Let's say that Hard fork never happened, lets say if tomorrow due to a certain smart contract, 90% of the Ether holders sell off, and go join Lisk or some other Smart contract platform, would you say because 90% of the Ethereum supporters sold off their currency, therefore the smart contract has been 'stopped' and that they should remove…

But, of course, that's not what happened, and there's no hypothetical in play. Ethereum sacrificed its principles to stop/censor a contract, and still keeps "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" on the website. It's the height of pathetic hypocrisy.

> But, of course, that's not what happened, and there's no hypothetical in play.

Literally what happened (and there is no way of saying it otherwise irrespective of how you approach it). A group of developers forked Ethereum into their own blockchain, so all the investors evened up with currency in both the chains. Then people sold their 'original ethers' and moved to the new ethers.

The current price of original Ethers (known as Ethereum Classic) is 90% less than what it used to be.

> Ethereum sacrificed its principles to stop/censor a contract, and still keeps "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" on the website.

You do understand that Ethereum is not like Apple or some other organization. It's a technology and "IT" does not have a website. You're talking about Ethereum.org which is the website of Ethereum Foundation.

And maybe I shouldn't presume knowledge on other people's (like your) part, but in a decentralized technology like Bitcoin or Ethereum, thousands of miners (or in PoS system stakers) are the real entity here. Miners too merely follow the price. This is why initially when Hard Fork happened, a lot of miners went back to mining Ethereum Classic after momentarily jumping to the forked blockchain. Then when it was clear that the market/investors don't support the idea of letting a theft continue, they jumped back to Ethereum forked chain.

Clearly Ethereum Classic hasn't 'sacrificed' it's principles, they too have a foundation, and you're free to invest and use ETC.

If I can write a piece of code which can be used to steal your emails and bank accounts, then your emails and bank accounts are already 'exposed'. They don't 'become exposed' when I write the tool.

Ethereum blockchain didn't become something different fundamentally when this hard fork was implemented. If you consider hard fork as 'mutating the blockchain' (which I heavily disagree) then it didn't become mutable when the hard fork was implemented, rather it was mutable from the day the it was created.

And funny thing is, by that measure, literally there is no such thing as immutable blockchain. Bitcoin can be mutated in the same way Ethereum was.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#103

Post by splintercell »

DannyBee wrote: post #46
splintercell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The analogy to the legal system is that mob rule supersedes (digital) contract law and property rights. Imagine if you and I wrote a contract, and in the contract, there is a typo which says that I will pay you $5 gazillion for an iPhone, then that doesn't mean that the courts must enforce it. Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of the parties. Now, what if the other side truly signed the contract because they…

"Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of the parties." And who is deciding what that intent? Right now, the mob, so the parent is right :) Your analogies to courts defeats the entire argument against that. Courts were, in fact, set up as deciders of that thing called "law". If code is law, so to speak, you don't need them. There is no intent.

> And who is deciding what that intent? Right now, the mob, so the parent is right :)

Considering we can decide to abolish the constitution in America (or in any country) any time, does that mean we don't have a constitutional republic in America? Technically we can never say that we have a system X which is not Mob rule because the mob can always abolish it.

Literally speaking, there is no such thing as 'code is law' because in your definition there is no such thing as law, because anything which can be modified by the mob is not law and everything can be modified or abolished by the mob.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#104

Post by DennisP »

antocv wrote: post #101
DennisP wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I was referring to the data structure and consensus algorithm, not particular implementation code. The two projects clearly have more differences than I initially realized.

The consensus algorithm of both is very unlike the other. IOTA has something like "Monte Carlo Random Walk for Tip Selection by most Proof-of-Work" while Byteball has 12 trusted witnesses to stamp and order transactions as they see them, stamp only when satisfying consensus rules, a Main Chain can then be built from all possible transaction histories (branches). No proof-of-work aside from signatures.

Hmm. How are the trusted witnesses selected? Is it the same 12 for the whole network?

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#105

Post by Y_Y »

K0SM0S wrote: post #68
Y_Y wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally, the SI unit of fuel efficiency is 1/m^2, the "per-square-metre", not this miles per gallon crap.

Miles is a unit of measure, ultimately meters in the SI. A gallon is a volume, liters in the SI, or more fundamentally a fraction of cube-meters (m^3). m / m^3 = 1/m^2 Which is the unit for fuel efficiency. It's expressed in imperial units but it's physically sound, not 'crap'. ;) In other parts of the world you'll see this expressed as "liters per 100km" usually.

Maybe my tongue-in-cheekness wasn't clear, sorry.

MPG is more pervasive than you might think. Even in metric, European Ireland it's the typical unit, despite speeds being in km/h and fuel being sold by the litre.

Since you seem to be interested, let me also add that litres are only accepted by, not part of, the SI. Also the SI spellings are "metre" and "litre".

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#106

Post by pirapira »

Jabanga wrote: post #87
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for showing me this! I either missed it or it didn't exist last time I looked in to ETH. (About a year ago, pre-DAO.) Either way, this is a major component of what I'd like to see in smart contracts! (The other two major pieces being a verified VM that supports that spec, and a developer library of "standard" contract pieces -- I don't recall being impressed by directly coding for the EVM, and easy-to-use cont…

Most welcome! It was just released so you wouldn't have seen it last year. There was a major push toward more secure smart contacts, in particular using formal verification, after the DAO hack, and the efforts continue to this day.

Using my definition of EVM, I think it's already possible to create a small verified compiler.

My priority is on keeping the formal definition in sync with the Yellow Paper and the implementations.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#107

Post by reddytowns »

kbody wrote: post #100
reddytowns wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for Ethereum, no one in their right mind would base something so crucial on such risky and proven-damaging language/platform. Print all the press releases you want to present yourself innovative etc., but it's a rotten foundation if you care about security and reliability. At least I hope we will see some evolution on that side instead of dirty-patching security issues. This is a bold statement to proclaim while…

Just from the DAO hack, you can learn a lot of things of how Ethereum works as a project and a company: - Ethereum's design (turing completeness etc.) doesn't enable formal verification of code/contracts - Months before the hack, Ethereum had paid for security audits, in the report the way the DAO hack was done was described, yet Ethereum failed to do anything about. - It's up to the decision of Ethereum's corporatio…

Regardless if the ethereum language is turing complete or not, you can still formally verify individual contracts. You can't determine whether every contract will halt or not, but that is a separate issue. The DAO contract should have been formally verified, and this was an oversight of the creators and as well as the participants to not demand this.

Also, the DAO is separate from Ethereum. It's a contract running on ethereum, not ethereum itself.

You are being very hyperbolic with your criticism.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#108

Post by Jabanga »

pirapira wrote: post #106
Jabanga wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most welcome! It was just released so you wouldn't have seen it last year. There was a major push toward more secure smart contacts, in particular using formal verification, after the DAO hack, and the efforts continue to this day.

Using my definition of EVM, I think it's already possible to create a small verified compiler. My priority is on keeping the formal definition in sync with the Yellow Paper and the implementations.

It's a surprise to see you here! :) Thanks for the explanation. Good luck with your work!

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#109

Post by K0SM0S »

Y_Y wrote: post #105
K0SM0S wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miles is a unit of measure, ultimately meters in the SI. A gallon is a volume, liters in the SI, or more fundamentally a fraction of cube-meters (m^3). m / m^3 = 1/m^2 Which is the unit for fuel efficiency. It's expressed in imperial units but it's physically sound, not 'crap'. ;) In other parts of the world you'll see this expressed as "liters per 100km" usually.

Maybe my tongue-in-cheekness wasn't clear, sorry. MPG is more pervasive than you might think. Even in metric, European Ireland it's the typical unit, despite speeds being in km/h and fuel being sold by the litre. Since you seem to be interested, let me also add that litres are only accepted by, not part of, the SI. Also the SI spellings are "metre" and "litre".

Ha sorry I indeed failed to catch your irony... My bad too, then.

I'm actually quite interested in the fact that any equation can be "sanity checked" by solving it for units only (without values). It's always handy to make sure I didn't forget some exponent here or there. And knowing extended units as a composition of fundamentals (some variation of mksa) is kind of entertaining intellectually.(e.g. Newton = m.kg/s^2, which really makes sense when you think about it). Going down to Planck units and their significance in this universe (discrete spacetime manifold? Is reality ultimately non-continuous?), and here I am wishing our conventional units (of time, distance, all) were integer multiples (e.g. Decimal exponents) of Planck units. But I'm digressing, aren't I.

As far as fuel and efficiency goes, I'm not much of a car person. I didn't know that mpg was used outside the US, that's an interesting historical artefact.

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