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We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

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Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#161

Post by bigbugbag »

bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

Google has a quite efficient PR strategy to make sure it does not look that bad while it is a worst offender than facebook simply because google had a several years head start.

Make not mistake here, google and facebook are both enemies of the internet, though each with a somewhat different approach, google being much broader as in facebook makes an app that runs on pocket computers operating a google OS and desktop users visit the facebook website using a google browser.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#162

Post by bigbugbag »

alphadevx wrote: post #84
bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

> But, to me, Google is quite different. I think they lost that argument when they started Google+, going into direct competition with Facebook with a comparable product, albeit unsuccessfully. If anything Google is more sinister to me, with a much broader reach than Facebook into areas like mapping and navigation, personalized ad tech, personalized search, mobile OS, PC OS, web analytics, etc. etc., all at least par…

They lost that argument when they switch from being a web search engine to become an ad network.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#163

Post by bigbugbag »

eksemplar wrote: post #83
bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

I encourage people to use Adblock, but I don't think it does much to combat companies like facebook. On facebook the adds and sponsored content is mixed in between your regular news feed, and it would be hard to tell the two apart. I do think google belongs on the evil list though. They are not as bad as Facebook, but they sure know a lot about you even when you're trying to be anonymous. I've never used my work mach…

Blocking ads is highly effective against facebook, that's why they're trying to workaround ad blockers. With enough users using ad blockers facebook would disappear sooner rather than later.

It's also effective against google which is nothing else than an ad network, until they pivot into being the self-driving car company or something.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#164

Post by bigbugbag »

sametmax wrote: post #91
bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

Oh, but google is as evil, just in a different way. Google collect everything. With android it has your phone activity, postion, text messages, conversation and contacts. With gmaill is has more contacts, and emails. With search, youtube and analytics, it knows everything you are interested in. With map it has a recording of everything that has a location and a visual of it. It keeps accumulating intimate data on a s…

Google is even scarier than that, it's not confined to the online world. Let's not forget they were involved in sequencing the human genome and are involved in genomics from investing in 23andme to their own "baseline study". And that's just one thing among many.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#165

Post by bigbugbag »

vinceguidry wrote: post #34

This is just unnecessarily divisive. Look, this is the way commerce works. Checks on corporate behavior come in two realms, legal and ethical. Companies will violate ethics if everybody else is doing it. Companies violate the law if they are the proverbial bad eggs. If unethical practices become normal, the thing to do is to get a law passed. It's the way this has always worked. Laws change the entire landscape of co…

> It's the way this has always worked

Definitely not. Just go back a few thousands years and there was nothing remotely close.

> The author's recommendation of a world without kings is a fantasy.

Only go back 5 centuries or so for this one. This is very well summarized in writings by Etienne de la Boetie in his discourse of voluntary servitude[1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_on_Voluntary_Servitu...

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#166

Post by bigbugbag »

tgragnato wrote: post #36
bicubic wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making it sound as if those companies knowingly stole or forced people to fork over data Both Google and Facebook are engaged in exactly those practices. Stolen and forced are apt adjectives to describe their behavior. Stolen like Whatsapp data after acquisition by Facebook, like contact lists, location history, voice recordings from your Android phone. Forced like Facebook constantly demanding you provide them you…

Given the amount of people deeply involved in the tech industry who read hn probably my opinion will not be very popular. But I feel obliged to add a few lines about WhatsApp. In a worrying technological landscape, it has been for a long time an application with a good tradeoff between privacy and convenience. I have always respected and praised this application, due to its philosophy: Acton and Koum made millions of…

> Like me, many people I know do not use social media (...) but virtually all of us use WhatsApp to keep in touch, share photos, locations, media, and even to create groups to discuss, meet, organize events. >(...) > The reason we use wa, is because wa is not a social media.

It seems you are confused about what social media is. Social media is whatever you use to socialize. Email is the long standing king of social media even before the term was coined as a marketing ploy. Whatsapp is simply one of the newcomer. So you are indeed using social media by using whatsapp.

Another hint that whatsapp is social media is the fact that they got bought by facebook for a hefty sum.

Sorry if I burst you bubble.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#167

Post by bigbugbag »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #25

The web wasn't stolen we gave it to them. You didn't have to sign up for Facebook. You don't have to sign up for googles services. Look how people like RMS use the web .

There was quite a significant amount of social pressure and manipulation to achieve this "we gave it to them". Voluntary servitude has been going on for centuries.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#168

Post by bigbugbag »

rimliu wrote: post #77
zitterbewegung wrote: post #25

The web wasn't stolen we gave it to them. You didn't have to sign up for Facebook. You don't have to sign up for googles services. Look how people like RMS use the web .

If everyone "browsed" the web RMS way there would be no web.

How do you not notice the lack of sense in what you say ?

If everyone was browsing the web the way RMS does it, not only there would be a web (what would everyone be browsing otherwise) but there would a full blown market catering to it.

Of course this web would be different to the one we currently have and given the current state and direction, it would probably be an improvement.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#169

Post by bigbugbag »

grahamburger wrote: post #55
virmundi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't exist. My wife and I dropped our accounts. Been great. We don't get involved in the SJW or the almost alt-right furors. We text our immediate loved ones. I call my mom. In their place we have actual friends. Real people that we play Cards Against Humanity with. Who understand that IBS means me dashing off and having my wife play my hands for a few hours. Then we go out and have a good time. If it's a choic…

I do these things while also having a Facebook account that I check on occasionally to see how old friends and distant relatives are getting on. I don't really understand why the two would be mutually exclusive.

They're not mutually exclusive. The point is that you can leave facebook and still have a social life, friends and relationships.

But the point of leaving facebook is to stop fueling their power and control over our lives, so having an account to check occasionally is self-defeating here, both for you and us.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#170

Post by bigbugbag »

bambax wrote: post #80
empath75 wrote: post #2

I've been thinking of closing my Facebook account, but I'd lose contact with so many friends and family. They don't use email or any kind of instant messenger any more, and nobody makes phone calls any more. If you're not on Facebook you might as well not exist.

Never had a FB account. I'm very much alive.

That's much easier than closing an account you've had for a while and which is your only way to keep in touch with your contacts.

Same as it is easier to learn something new than unlearning something you know.

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