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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#641

Post by philliphaydon »

hippich wrote: post #591
philliphaydon wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a New Zealander. System doesn't work in NZ...

Could you expand your comment? How exactly it does not work?

It's so easy to get into New Zealand, that it's used as a stepping stone for Australia. Spend 2 years in NZ, get PR, 2 more years get Citizenship. Move to Australia without needing a visa to live/work in Australia. You may as well just hand out Citizenship on arrival.

The government isn't doing anything to make people want to come to NZ to start a business, so New Zealanders literally just pack up and move to the UK / Australia.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#642

Post by dgellow »

kashkhan wrote: post #493
dgellow wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a country is limited. Limited territory, limited resources.

the US is not being destroyed by immigrants coming and stealing the territory and resources. The US has plenty of unused fallow land that immigrants can buy/lease with real money and work with real labor. the US doesn't give free territory and resources to immigrants. It should allow them to freely trade in it.

You're strawmanning me. I never said anything about the US being destroyed by immigrant or a stealing of territory or resources. In fact I never mentioned the US.

The comment I responded to was:

> universities have limited classrooms and labs to fill. A country is not limited.

That's factually incorrect. A country is limited in a lot of ways.

To be honest I think that your definition of "immigrant" is biased.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#643

Post by dgellow »

kashkhan wrote: post #491
dgellow wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't kill an immigrant when you refuse to give him access to a country. It has nothing to do with the future of humanity and everything to do with the future of the country. (Edit: I am an immigrant. And of course immigrant lives matter. All human lives matter)

many immigrant lives are cut short because they aren't allowed to migrate. The poor have only their labor to trade with. systematically discriminating where they can work, destroys their lives just as much as slavery can. It's stolen wages.

> The poor have only their labor to trade with.

In fact that's what we all trade when we move to a foreign country. The general rules are to have enough work experience in your field or a degree, and you will need a proof that you're going to work or study. That applies to everybody.

> destroys their lives just as much as slavery can.

Ok, I don't know what to say. That's just purely disingenuous.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#644

Post by dgellow »

kashkhan wrote: post #491
dgellow wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't kill an immigrant when you refuse to give him access to a country. It has nothing to do with the future of humanity and everything to do with the future of the country. (Edit: I am an immigrant. And of course immigrant lives matter. All human lives matter)

many immigrant lives are cut short because they aren't allowed to migrate. The poor have only their labor to trade with. systematically discriminating where they can work, destroys their lives just as much as slavery can. It's stolen wages.

> many immigrant lives are cut short because they aren't allowed to migrate.

I'm not sure what you mean. If you cannot leave your country (because of your country policies) that's a problem, I agree. If you cannot enter, say, the US, you still have a lot of other countries where you can try to immigrate to.

Btw, when I use the word "immigrant" I mean "come to live in a foreign country". I'm pretty sure you are using a different meaning (maybe "refugee"?), could you clarify?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#645

Post by timthelion »

rdl wrote: post #631
timthelion wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bio says: "Aside from living on a Caribbean island during crypto export controlled 1990s, I've lived on a tiny artificial platform in the North Sea, plus more reasonable places like London, Amsterdam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, and spent 6 months diving in Thailand." So you've moved around a lot. But you want to make it harder for others to do so. It seems to me that you think you are better than others with you…

I never broke ITAR -- I strictly complied with it.

That doesn't make it any less absurd for you to have some kind of hatred of anyone who is a felon. You obviously think some laws are wrong given that you explicitly moved overseas to get around them. And you are a hairs width from not having complied, indeed, I think that a reasonable court could have convicted you (did you use knowledge that you gained in the US to help you write crypto?).

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#646

Post by kingmanaz »

r00fus wrote: post #503
kingmanaz wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, "one standard for me and another for thee".

Yes all countries should all have the same laws and culture!

Why not? They seem to have the same editorialists (ethnically speaking)...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#647

Post by masondixon »

int_19h wrote: post #618
masondixon wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It simply tries to get a handle on 1 million immigrants coming here a year, virtually none of whom are coming here based on their employment skills or demonstrated economic need," he said. " I don't think our immigration system is working for working Americans." How does it make sense to let people in who will not work or fulfil a need? How is this sustainable? From http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/1/14…

> Family-based migration doesn't exist in other countries Family-based migration absolutely does exist in other countries, including those you have specifically named. It may not be as extensive as in US, but that's a different matter. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/ https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Brin And yes, having an eligible family member does effectively "guarantee you a spot as an immigrant you…

> Family-based migration absolutely does exist in other countries, including those you have specifically named.

Sorry, I genuinely meant that its not as extensive.

"Australia admits approximately two-thirds of its immigrants on skill criteria and strives to recruit persons during their peak working ages (Walsh, 2008). By contrast, about two-thirds of U.S. immigrants are family sponsored, without regard to skills or age (Wasem, 2007)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3516050/

Do you agree with me that the rhetoric and outrage surrounding this proposal are dramatically overblown when considering the statistics and practices in a very liberal country like Australia?

This is my main point. There is a debate to be had, and the left/liberal/progressive/MSM want to shut it down with scary headlines. This is most definitely an example of fake news.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#648

Post by collyw »

drewrv wrote: post #363
anon74663 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, how can you not think that? Logically a Canadian is going to be culturally a better fit, financially better off, and more educated and skilled. It's got nothing to do with race or nationality, just a statement about the average Mexican vs the average Canadian. Don't throw logic out the window in service to liberal ideals.

Why would a Canadian be a better fit for southern california or texas? Is their experience moose hunting going to help in 100 degree heat? Why would we even want someone who's "culturally" a better fit? I'd love it if the people around me were more diverse, it makes life richer and more interesting.

>I'd love it if the people around me were more diverse, it makes life richer and more interesting.

Just to play devils advocate do you think that is the case if they don't speak the language? If they don't share the same values? If they stick to their own groups and don't integrate, does it really make your life more interesting and diverse?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#649

Post by masondixon »

justin66 wrote: post #434
masondixon wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Authoritarians Why do you think they are authoritarians. I don't get this. The right in the US is about freedom. The left is the part of authoritarianism. The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose th…

> The right in the US is about freedom. Except when it comes to a woman's right to choose, the freedom to assemble and protest, freedom from religion, freedom of the press, freedom of movement, freedom to use the bathroom associated with your gender, freedom to use drugs recreationally, or any other area of personal freedoms you'd care to name wherein - to be really, really generous - the right doesn't perform any be…

Free exchange of ideas. This is by far the most important right. You must imagine that someone in power has enacted harsh laws that you oppose. These laws should never prevent your ability from finding other people who oppose these laws and having a means to democratically over turn them. This is the most important part of freedom.

Everything else you mentioned can be democratically overturned if enough people support it.

> woman's right to choose

I consider myself on the right, but I support women's right to choose. The religious right is on the way out. Yes, it use to be a big issue, but its not anymore. It was not a campaign issue, and Trump says he will "leave it to the states".

> freedom to assemble and protest

Can I have examples of this? We 100% support your right to peaceful protest and assembly. Can you provide some examples of ways Trump's administration is cracking down on this?

If you are talking about non-peaceful protests like blocking highways, preventing people from getting to work, ANTIFA wearing masks and attacking people at rallies then this is not acceptable and I support laws to crack down on this more.

> freedom from religion

Tick.

> freedom of the press

Examples that are not fake news please?

> freedom of movement

What do you mean here? US citizens who are not under parole or incarcerated can move freely anywhere inside the US.

> freedom to use the bathroom associated with your gender

What about freedom to use the bathroom associated with your own sex (physical M/F)?

Two sides to every "freedom" issue.

> freedom to use drugs recreationally

You want crack made legal? Weed legalisation is non-partisan now.

> personal freedoms

If these personal freedoms you talk of prevent you from being able to assemble and vote, then I support them.

Otherwise, laws should be enacted based on debate and democratic processes.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#650

Post by collyw »

drewrv wrote: post #344
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

Pretty much anyone who pays more taxes than they cost could be considered "useful", which is not a hard thing to accomplish and therefore a strong argument for allowing a lot more immigration. In other words one of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is nonsense.

Here is an interesting article on EU and non-EU immigrants to the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immi...

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