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A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

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Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#141

Post by ec109685 »

refurb wrote: post #123
davidf18 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the wealth in California comes from high technology. The research of the high technology came from the Federal Government. The training of the PhDs that created the research (think semiconductors) came from the NSF and NIH and other federal funds. Thus, it is not unlike a VC making early stage investments in a company. BTW, I'm in NY State and it also has net tax outflows.

Much of the wealth in California comes from high technology. I think you need to get out of SV more often. The top 3 ranked sectors in California by GDP are: (1) health, education - 18%, (2) real estate, rental and leasing - 17% and (3) trade, transportation and utilities - 16%.[1] Not sure where tech would fall, but probably in: information - 6% or professional and technical services 9%. Silicon Valley seems like it…

That was from back in 2008 and it isn't well sourced. It from the author "own work" and a 404'd link.

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#142

Post by mc32 »

smaili wrote: post #85

> By any measure, Caltrain is the equivalent of a dated personal computer running Windows 95 way overdue for an upgrade. Rush-hour trains are so crowded that their aisles are filled with passengers. Trains break down frequently and the locomotives belch plumes of black smoke into the air — a sight more in line with the early industrial age than 21st century Silicon Valley. As a frequent commuter, I couldn't agree mor…

Blame San Mateo county in the 50s who chose against participating in the then BART project. If they had voted in, BART would be going down the peninsula to SJ (sorry Morgan Hill) and there'd be no need for a Caltrain. But as we know, SM voted down participating in BART and now we are left with Caltrain on the pen. and BART going the long way to SJ (via Fremont).

Oh, well, hindsight, NIMBYism, pop growth etc.

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#143

Post by ubernostrum »

mc32 wrote: post #142
smaili wrote: post #85

> By any measure, Caltrain is the equivalent of a dated personal computer running Windows 95 way overdue for an upgrade. Rush-hour trains are so crowded that their aisles are filled with passengers. Trains break down frequently and the locomotives belch plumes of black smoke into the air — a sight more in line with the early industrial age than 21st century Silicon Valley. As a frequent commuter, I couldn't agree mor…

Blame San Mateo county in the 50s who chose against participating in the then BART project . If they had voted in, BART would be going down the peninsula to SJ (sorry Morgan Hill) and there'd be no need for a Caltrain. But as we know, SM voted down participating in BART and now we are left with Caltrain on the pen. and BART going the long way to SJ (via Fremont). Oh, well, hindsight, NIMBYism, pop growth etc.

Of course, BART is no picnic to ride on either...

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#144

Post by Johnny555 »

mc32 wrote: post #142
smaili wrote: post #85

> By any measure, Caltrain is the equivalent of a dated personal computer running Windows 95 way overdue for an upgrade. Rush-hour trains are so crowded that their aisles are filled with passengers. Trains break down frequently and the locomotives belch plumes of black smoke into the air — a sight more in line with the early industrial age than 21st century Silicon Valley. As a frequent commuter, I couldn't agree mor…

Blame San Mateo county in the 50s who chose against participating in the then BART project . If they had voted in, BART would be going down the peninsula to SJ (sorry Morgan Hill) and there'd be no need for a Caltrain. But as we know, SM voted down participating in BART and now we are left with Caltrain on the pen. and BART going the long way to SJ (via Fremont). Oh, well, hindsight, NIMBYism, pop growth etc.

I'll take Caltrain in its current state over BART any day.

BART is a costly system and they've been masking the true costs for decades by deferring maintenance, the $3.5B they've gotten from taxpayers is just a portion of what they need to bring the system up to date. And worse, they can spend up to a third of that on operational costs... which are sky high in part because BART is saddled with high labor costs and can't rein in its union's lucrative work rules. Case in point, the Warm Springs station is not even open yet, but it's fully staffed, including janitors to clean an empty, unused station.

But the problems don't end there -- BART's equipment is non-standard gauge so every order is a custom order with high lead times and there's no world market for BART's gauge. While Caltrain is able to supplement capacity by buying surplus cars.

And BART is designed with no passing tracks, so there's no such thing as an "express" train. Want to go from San Jose to SF? Well you've got to stop at every station in between. While with Caltrain you can take a 5 stop "baby bullet".

And finally, the capacity of nearly the entire system is dependent on how fast passengers can get on and off the trains at Embarcadero station. BART has a billion dollar band-aid for that, by digging out the other side of the station so passengers can board from both sides. What they really need are multiple tracks, like what Caltrain has at their SF station (and other high volume transit systems throughout the world)

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#145

Post by ubernostrum »

rocqua wrote: post #43
gumby wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the Caltrain electrification is in one of the book ends. The logic for starting in the middle is that it created economic assistance (as a side effect) in an area with a jobs problem. Why not start that part sooner rather than later?

> The logic for starting in the middle is that it created economic assistance (as a side effect) in an area with a jobs problem. Why not start that part sooner rather than later? This is much like the broken-window-fallacy. The reason not to start in the middle is because the middle (especially on its own) doesn't have a lot of inherent value. Heck, if the train here (minus wages) costs more than it is worth this is…

Congratulations! You've proved you can type the phrase "broken-window fallacy". Just be careful -- if you do it three times in a single comment, a ghost will appear in your bathroom mirror.

Meanwhile... if you're going to build a high-speed line from SF to LA, why not start the project by

1. In locations which already have rail infrastructure, upgrading that infrastructure to the required standard, and

2. In locations which lack existing infrastructure or connections to the planned stops of the line, get the construction on that going

And if as a side effect it boosts the economies of the places in (2), well, that's a nice side effect. But "we were going to do this anyway, doing it in this order gets this side effect that's useful" is not the broken-window fallacy.

Plus, you know, infrastructure isn't generally built for its high profit margins; it's built because of the profit it generates in other sectors.

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#146

Post by Johnny555 »

jedberg wrote: post #19
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #4

They should've started high speed rail in the bookends, since any construction there would have immediate benefits for hundreds of thousands of riders, and instill public confidence in the project. That would've helped Caltrain electrification right there.

Yup. The train is a huge boondoggle, mostly because they are building it backwards. Building the middle part where no one lives is easier and will make a lot of jobs in a lot of poor areas, but then it is just a secret welfare program, not a useful piece of infrastructure. Let's just provide welfare if that's the goal, and then build some useful infrastructure like electrified tracks in the Bay Area and bullet train…

building the middle part where no one lives is easier and will make a lot of jobs in a lot of poor areas

It will make a lot of temporary jobs -- and transient workers will come from hundreds of miles away to work on the project and will leave when it's done so many of the jobs won't directly benefit local residents. Small towns will see a brief increase in business during the construction, then it'll die away, along with the small businesses that sprung up to support it.

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#147

Post by ubernostrum »

hueving wrote: post #77

>Caltrain plans to use the money to switch to modern electric trains, from old diesel locomotives that are prone to failure. I ride the Caltrain about once a week and I haven't encountered a delay due to a locomotive failure. How often does this happen?

I'd estimate I have a significant delay on my way to/from work probably once or twice a month. Whether it's equipment failure or an incursion onto the tracks, it's usually a mess when it happens, and adds at least an hour to the trip since they have to single-track the problem segment of the line until everything is cleared.

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#148

Post by jimmywanger »

eon1 wrote: post #57
davidf18 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Words can't express how sad I feel about people who write and believe in such a logic. Where is our humanity gone?" The correct term is illegal aliens. I didn't create the term, but I do use the language correctly. My humanity is for those poor people who live in the US who don't get enough funding as it is and who lose out on the funding because of illegal aliens. That is where my humanity is. My question to you…

>Much of that money is used for funding..illegal aliens Er, maybe, but far, far more is used on maintaining massive military superiority[0][1][2][3].. if it's tax dollars you're worried about, you ought to have far bigger concerns than "illegals". [0] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud... [1] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spe... [2] http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archiv…

Typical example of "Whataboutism" [0]

The point here is not government spending priorities, but spending efficiently and justly in the fund distribution we have now.

In other words, we do spend money on illegal aliens, we spend more money on other things, but we should not be spending any money on illegal immigrants, no matter what else we're spending money on.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#149

Post by jimmywanger »

mikeyouse wrote: post #53
davidf18 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Words can't express how sad I feel about people who write and believe in such a logic. Where is our humanity gone?" The correct term is illegal aliens. I didn't create the term, but I do use the language correctly. My humanity is for those poor people who live in the US who don't get enough funding as it is and who lose out on the funding because of illegal aliens. That is where my humanity is. My question to you…

The vast majority of children of immigrants in public schools are US citizens by virtue of being born in the US. This argument about spending money on educating illegal immigrants is pretty facile.

> This argument about spending money on educating illegal immigrants is pretty facile.

That is one aspect of what the government spends money on. What about roads, health care, utilities, and the other things the OP mentions?

Re: A Silicon Valley Train Gets Stuck

#150

Post by mc32 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #144
mc32 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame San Mateo county in the 50s who chose against participating in the then BART project . If they had voted in, BART would be going down the peninsula to SJ (sorry Morgan Hill) and there'd be no need for a Caltrain. But as we know, SM voted down participating in BART and now we are left with Caltrain on the pen. and BART going the long way to SJ (via Fremont). Oh, well, hindsight, NIMBYism, pop growth etc.

I'll take Caltrain in its current state over BART any day. BART is a costly system and they've been masking the true costs for decades by deferring maintenance, the $3.5B they've gotten from taxpayers is just a portion of what they need to bring the system up to date. And worse, they can spend up to a third of that on operational costs... which are sky high in part because BART is saddled with high labor costs and ca…

I grant you the custom gauge issue. That's unforgivable. Labor costs (Janitor earning quarter mill) are something they can work on --They just seem unwilling to go the union-busting way. Passing tracks, I'm not aware of most Caltrain stations having passing tracks --they just schedule things so far apart they can pass at a couple of stations. I'd prefer more frequent service.

A ring around the bay or a second Transbay tube would alleviate the Transbay bottleneck.

On the plus side it's all electric and works with minute headway.

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