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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#601

Post by Clubber »

BenElgar wrote: post #557
old-gregg wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just have to spend so much time on useless shit that you don't deal with in other advanced economies Just curious, can you provide some examples? (outside of healthcare, which is the well-known hell). Thanks!

For an example of the top of my head, take tax returns. In the UK the vast majority of people don't need to file one—your employer deducts the right amount each month from your salary and off you go. Moving to America I found I had to spend at least half a dozen hours trying to figure out what I had to do, eventually giving up and paying for a service to do it for me and am still unsure I filed correctly. For another…

You've accidentally hit on a problem with much of the complexity of laws in the US: states have autonomy on a lot of things. Healthcare is a big one. It's regulated by the states. Insurance companies incorporate by state. Each state has it's own regulations. Some states are gun friendly, some are not. Although our federal government yields a lot of power, constitutionally, it doesn't have as much as its seems.

It's an interesting model. It was more like the EU in it's inception than today in that each state was it's own country under a thin umbrella of federal government. The outcome of the US Civil War changed that significantly, but not enough to have a coherent, omnipotent federal system. (The EU doesn't have one either; each EU country controls most of their own sovereignty). One main difference is US states can't secede from the US while EU countries can.

Another issue is free borders between states. If state A enacts universal healthcare, how does it prevent the sick inhabitants of neighboring states B,C,D,E from emmigrating and bankrupting the state? This model poses all sorts of problems. Even colleges have to deal with this. If you live in the same state as the college for a year, you are considered a permanent resident and get a significant tuition deduction (like 75% less). There are hundreds of examples of where autonomous states with free borders cause administration headaches.

Imagine if the EU decided to have a governing body that took taxes and distributed services, like healthcare, military, infrastructure, etc. It would have to cut out parts of the tax code for Greece and add parts for France, etc. Not only that, but by industry. Then tack on special interest lobbying. It would be a mess. Not only that, what if 1/4 of the countries didn't have universal healthcare?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#602

Post by gumby »

calvinbhai wrote: post #595
gumby wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), Having lived on the east side of Berlin (post Wall!) I cannot forget that that wall was supposedly built to keep people out but of course it kept people in . I am Australian, and I have to admit the points based system does work there...but. I have lived longest in the USA where the chaos has been beneficial for the country, and thus for me. Aus…

Since you are Australian, you are probably not aware of how biased the immigration system is, against the Indians. And thats what the earlier comment by throw2bit was referring to, that its better to build a wall to keep illegal immigrants out while reforming the legal immigration to be similar to that of Canada and Australia where the most productive humans with greatest potential are allowed in, irrespective of whi…

> Since you are Australian, you are probably not aware of how biased the immigration system is, against the Indians.

I am not aware of such a bias, and I have a half a dozen Indian relatives living in the USA (I am an Australian with one Indian parent, currently living in the USA). I have not studied any current place-of-origin biases in particular (I know historically they were dreadful and for all I know they still are. Certainly the rhetoric is).

> ...that of Canada and Australia where the most productive humans with greatest potential are allowed in...

Ah, but it's all about who decides what is deemed "with the greatest potential". It's what is believed to be needed now of course, whether nurses, plumbers, or geneticists, but what about poets, lunatics, or those who write music I don't enjoy?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#603

Post by pharrlax »

masondixon wrote: post #375
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

> Authoritarians Why do you think they are authoritarians. I don't get this. The right in the US is about freedom. The left is the part of authoritarianism. The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose th…

>The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose the wrong words, you are finished.

"Freedom of speech" has nothing to do with social opprobrium. Freedom of speech means the government is not going to step in and silence you for failing to use "PC terminology". It does not mean you should be immune from other people deciding you said something distasteful enough that they no longer want to employ you or associate with you.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#604

Post by gumby »

smsm42 wrote: post #575
gumby wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), Having lived on the east side of Berlin (post Wall!) I cannot forget that that wall was supposedly built to keep people out but of course it kept people in . I am Australian, and I have to admit the points based system does work there...but. I have lived longest in the USA where the chaos has been beneficial for the country, and thus for me. Aus…

> I cannot forget that that wall was supposedly built to keep people out As far as I know, the Berlin wall was always supposed to keep people in. Strict exit restrictions was common in all soviet regimes, including one in DDR.

Yes, you know correctly, but it was sold as a defence against the west. Which turned into a running joke in "Goodbye Lenin" BTW.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#605

Post by gweinberg »

gumby wrote: post #384
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), Having lived on the east side of Berlin (post Wall!) I cannot forget that that wall was supposedly built to keep people out but of course it kept people in . I am Australian, and I have to admit the points based system does work there...but. I have lived longest in the USA where the chaos has been beneficial for the country, and thus for me. Aus…

Nobody on planet earth believed the Berlin Wall was to keep people out. Ever.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#606

Post by pharrlax »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #594
pm90 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Let's give credit where credit is due. If it wasn't for Bush and Obama recognizing the problem and acting quickly to fix it, we could have had a crisis of much larger proportions. Now, I'm not saying they Personally fixed it. But they did recognize the enormity of the situation and actively took steps that helped remedy it.

Not my take on history. I'd rather see bankrupt people go bankrupt.

I'd rather live in the world we do now than gamble that the financial system would not have collapsed.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#607

Post by sumedh »

bluthru wrote: post #334

If you want world prosperity this isn't a simple issue at all. Why should the richest country in the world get richer by taking the best and brightest who could have helped elevate their own countries? Isn't this just contributing to a world stratification of wealth?

The problem their own countries dont want to utilize their skills so those people seek a better future somewhere else.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#608

Post by sg47 »

sumedh wrote: post #596
calvinbhai wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are Australian, you are probably not aware of how biased the immigration system is, against the Indians. And thats what the earlier comment by throw2bit was referring to, that its better to build a wall to keep illegal immigrants out while reforming the legal immigration to be similar to that of Canada and Australia where the most productive humans with greatest potential are allowed in, irrespective of whi…

> how biased the immigration system is, against the Indians. What specifically do you mean by that. As far as I know many Indians get Resident visa because of their skills.

There's a limit to the number of green cards that can be issued for people from a particular nationality (country of birth than country of citizenship). This creates a backlog for Indians and Chinese nationals. The backlog causes a long wait time and uncertainty for Indian nationals. There are people, like me, who have been waiting for their green card for more than 7 years. I've been in this country for 15 years now, have a Masters degree and have paid more than half a million in taxes (a couple of acquisitions helped). With equity, I make close to $400k/yr and could probably make more if I had a green card. I have substantial (north of $250k) savings in cash which I hesitate to invest here since I've no idea if I'll get my green card or be sent back. My spouse was finally allowed to work here due to Obama's H4 EAD rule but now that's going to be revoked too. It sucks, since my spouse wants to teach kids with special needs and there's significant demand for such teachers. If my green card doesn't come through in the next couple of years, I'll most likely move back to my home country or one of Canada/New Zealand.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#609

Post by bluthru »

sumedh wrote: post #607
bluthru wrote: post #334

If you want world prosperity this isn't a simple issue at all. Why should the richest country in the world get richer by taking the best and brightest who could have helped elevate their own countries? Isn't this just contributing to a world stratification of wealth?

The problem their own countries dont want to utilize their skills so those people seek a better future somewhere else.

And how do you break that cycle?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#610

Post by sumedh »

bluthru wrote: post #609
sumedh wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem their own countries dont want to utilize their skills so those people seek a better future somewhere else.

And how do you break that cycle?

If I had that answer I probably would have been a political leader bringing change.
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