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The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

danielcompton.net

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Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#181

Post by eugeniub »

amptorn wrote: post #172
Analemma_ wrote: post #3

Yeah, this is a big deal. Uber has gambled everything on self-driving cars, what with their absurd burn rate and all. If that gets shut down because of trade secret injunctions, I don't think they have time to pivot to another strategy, especially after their reputation has nosedived.

I'm honestly amazed that anybody bought "pivot to self-driving cars" as a strategy. Even if it did work and they built perfect working autonomous vehicle software, right now, legitimately, what's the next step? Were they going to buy and operate a fleet? Have random people sign up to rent their unused cars out as taxis?

> Were they going to buy and operate a fleet?

I don't see what's the problem with that.

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#184

Post by Animats »

memmcgee wrote: post #163
Animats wrote: post #133

Uber, in their usual rule-breaking way, may come out OK on this. Suppose everything in the complaint against Uber is proven true. Google/Alphabet/Waymo gets an injunction against Uber using their rotating LIDAR, a clunky technology that's on the way out. (The future of high-volume 3D LIDAR is either flash with a staring sensor or MEMS with chip-sized moving mirrors.) G/A/W gets paid a few billion dollars, but far les…

They seem to be fundraising awfully quick for a company that has plenty of cash on hand. They'd probably have to fund-raise again or go public to pay off the damages.

Going public just got tougher for Uber. With a big lawsuit with merit hanging over them, their IPO value drops considerably. Underwriters don't like open-ended liabilities like that.

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#185

Post by dragonwriter »

patmcguire wrote: post #39

How credible are all these logs? Email records (came up in Oracle Android case) are one thing, emails are a known thing. But how trustworthy are Google Drive logs, a record that only exists within Google, when what they've recorded helps their case? I'm not casting aspersions, just curious how a new kind of evidence plays out.

> But how trustworthy are Google Drive logs, a record that only exists within Google, when what they've recorded helps their case?

Routinely-kept business records are common evidence in cases, and, while any evidence is subject to impeachment, "it supports the case of the party keeping the records" is almost never sufficient to get a trier of fact (jury in the case of a jury trial) to dismiss the evidence; you generally need either some more concrete evidence of fabrication or independent evidence contradicting the conclusion the evidence is offered to support.

Google Drive logs are fundamentally no different than email, or even paper business records, in this context.

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#187

Post by dsr_ »

astrodust wrote: post #145
dookahku wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not. Every major car company plus competitors are focusing on self-driving cars. Why pay a human what a machine can do for cheaper? Uber's future depends on being first with self driving cars. Being a good taxi company in the 21st century will mean good at self-driving cars.

If self-driving cars become the norm, if you can just buy one at will, Uber's business model is junked.

They were hoping for a combination of first-mover advantage and recognizable brand name / known player.

If you're used to taking an Uber on occasion, taking an AutoUber isn't a big deal, just like trying a new coffee at Starbucks.

Even if GM is selling L5 autonomous cars to everybody in 2025, they're going to cost as much as a car does. Why buy it when you can pay by the ride? And Uber wants to be the name you think of when summoning a ride.

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#188

Post by asimov_ »

transfire wrote: post #137
themgt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even at the time, knowing none of the characters or background I found Otto a very odd startup, one I almost didn't believe looked legit, and their rapid acquisition by Uber was one more "huh, strange" moment - how could they have bootstrapped out of nowhere and had tech worth that kind of money so fast? It's almost hard to believe Uber would be so brazen as to put something like this together, except that breaking t…

> except that breaking the law has been Uber's business model since day 1. So tired of hearing this. It's just parrots talking in the echo chamber. Show me a court verdict that Uber broke the law.

"Uber will pay as much as $25 million to settle a civil lawsuit with the district attorneys in Los Angeles and San Francisco" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/technology/uber-settles-s...

"Uber settles driver lawsuit over background checks, to pay $7.5 million" http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-lawsuit-idUSKCN0Z12GS

"Uber has agreed to pay $28.5 million to settle litigation brought by customers who alleged the ride hailing service misrepresented the quality of its safety practices and the fees it charged passengers" http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-tech-safety-settlemen...

Need more?

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#189

Post by amptorn »

eugeniub wrote: post #181
amptorn wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly amazed that anybody bought "pivot to self-driving cars" as a strategy. Even if it did work and they built perfect working autonomous vehicle software, right now, legitimately, what's the next step? Were they going to buy and operate a fleet? Have random people sign up to rent their unused cars out as taxis?

> Were they going to buy and operate a fleet? I don't see what's the problem with that.

It's not problematic at all. But it would require Uber to cease being a software company and start being, like, an actual taxi service, with physical assets and vehicles and garages and maintenance. The whole reason Uber is competitive with actual taxi services is that those costs are all offloaded to the poor saps who drive for them.

Re: The Uber Bombshell About to Drop

#190

Post by amptorn »

beamatronic wrote: post #176
amptorn wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly amazed that anybody bought "pivot to self-driving cars" as a strategy. Even if it did work and they built perfect working autonomous vehicle software, right now, legitimately, what's the next step? Were they going to buy and operate a fleet? Have random people sign up to rent their unused cars out as taxis?

Yes, and then these "private contractors" who own the car and buy the self-driving hardware box from Uber take all the risk.

They'll take that risk for one single day. Then they'll wake up the next morning with their vehicle, which they rented out to Uber for taxi rides overnight, parked in their driveway full of vomit. That's the best case scenario, where the box actually exists and works, and Uber can find a sucker.
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