Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#471

Post by rat87 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

artursapek wrote: post #451

akhilcacharya wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet people all across the country protested at airports a few weeks ago...

Well sure, because that travel ban was ridiculous. I'm just saying most of the time "Trump" and "immigration" are mentioned together it's regarding the southern border, not ME immigration.

It shouldn't be.

Unauthorized immigrants face the most immediate danger due to the law but the Trump administration is hostile to legal immigration as well. They're seeking to decrease legal immigration and considerimg an executive order to deport legal immigrants for using welfare.

They are trying to ban by executive order legal immigration from arbitrary Muslim majority countries and all refugees (possibly temporarily but I expect them to try to extend it).

Steve Bannon sees the number of asian CEOs (which he greatly overestimates) as a bad thing.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#472

Post by dmode » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

This is the link to the actual study http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Bi...

Indian immigrants seem to lead the pack, but it is still the tip of the iceberg. If the current shackles are taken off from Indian immigrants, I bet there will be way more entrepreneurs. I would love the calculate the impact on US GDP based on immigrants who are not allowed to start a company

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#473

Post by jimmyk » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #60

rayiner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to make that cuts the other way. What is the cost of integrating and potentially supporting a million immigrants compared to the return from one billion dollar startup? (Especially when we're talking a billion dollars of Monopoly money valuation versus day a billion in revenue.)

Um, not much? Immigrants as a whole pay their way in the United States, have lower crime rates. The revenue generated by Google, Chobani, and other companies is not "Mickey mouse" money. Not to mention that Microsoft and Google both picked immigrants to be their leaders.

"Immigrants as a whole pay their way in the United States, have lower crime rates."

Would that be the case if the US didn't have visa programs which select for high quality immigrants balancing out illegal immigration and visa programs which do not select for high quality immigrants?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#474

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

gwern wrote: post #197

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

> One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. This is exactly what the study shows is not just possible but easy in screening by nationality. Think about US immigration statistics by country ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat... ): you'll see lots of Central and South American countries. Now take a…

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#475

Post by xapata » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #295

xapata wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he not finish his thought to clarify that Americans are not as entrepreneurial as Asians? That seems like an easy thing to say if that's what he meant.

It's possible he didn't think it needed clarification. This discussion took place within effectively a far-right echo chamber where everyone was already more or less on the same page. It's also possible he didn't even feel very strongly about this point to begin with and decided he didn't like it before even finishing his sentence. It's really impossible to say. During live, unscripted discussions it's very common fo…

> on the same page

So... that page is the understanding that the majority culture suppresses the entrepreneurial spirit or are bad at math and science? If that's the echo chamber of the far-right, that's a big surprise to me.

> decide they don't even personally like it while in the midst of saying it, and then cut themselves off.

That's possible. Indeed it sounds like Bannon cut himself off, but more for disliking the clarity than the content of what he was saying. It sounded like he caught himself and chose to insinuate rather than elucidate.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#476

Post by rat87 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

kingmanaz wrote: post #342

>Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups Curious if the overwhelmingly-Jewish editorialists at WSJ would likewise rationalize unlimited non-Jewish immigration to Israel based on spurious "greater good" economic arguments. Maybe there's something more important than the economy at stake when deciding the fate of a national inheritance?

America is a nation of immigrants. We haven't been an Anglo Saxon nation in a while and aren't a white nation.

Israel is a homeland for Jewish refugees(and the Arabs that remained there after the independence war).

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#477

Post by rat87 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

kingmanaz wrote: post #320

Place a moratorium on legal immigration. The economy is a means rather than an end, and, three-hundred-million people is more than enough for North America.

No it's not enough

Immigrants make our country great

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#478

Post by Oxitendwe » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

ue_ wrote: post #470

Oxitendwe wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not as complicated as you make it out to be. Everyone has a right to put the interests of themselves and their group first and foremost. Given that, the "solution" to immigration is to just not bother with it when it isn't in your interests. The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. The reason the right doesn't is because they don't want to lose their cultural and nat…

>The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. This is extermely narrow-sighted and very uncharitable, and fails to explain the radical left's stance on immigration, given that very few immigrants vote for, say, the Communist party. >Nowhere along the line does anybody care about why people want to be here - it's not their concern. And that's what I'm saying the problem is. People ha…

The "material conditions" that lead to illegal immigration in the US are lax enforcement of immigration and labor laws. If we had enforced our laws from the beginning, it would not be a problem. The solution then, is to enforce the laws we have, and remove their incentive to be here, not to go over there and make their country better. We have our own country to make great (again!).

>Because apparently the only humans who matter are those on this side of the line in the sand.

Everyone has a right to act in their best interests. Charity is never obligatory.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#479

Post by rat87 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 8:00 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #293

dopamean wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see anyone prove how even illegal immigrants are a detriment to our country. Also, xenophobia is xenophobia. Let's say we actually got rid of all illegal immigrants. You really think the debate about immigration would end there?

Yes. ETA: I married an immigrant. Stop the imputation of "xenophobia".

So did Trump

Hell he married multiple immigrants

(And used undocumented polish workers to build Trump tower)

He is still xenophobic

He also told Jed Bush not to speak Spanish in public while his wife is raising their child bilingual.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#480

Post by throwaway743824 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 8:04 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #424

throwaway743824 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful." I think that's extremely hard in terms of startups. You're essentially expecting the government to select what is valuable and what isn't. I don't like unclear visa situations either, but I haven't really seen a country effectively implement "come here and do whatever for a bit as long as you can take care of yourself".…

E2 visa is a decent proxy for usefulness already.

Somewhat. The conditions are sort of awkward since you have to basically start a company, build contacts wherever you are for an investment and then at the same time build contacts in the US and move you company there.

I think a better situation would be something like a "mini E-2" where you with a lesser investment (say $20k) can start you US company directly, go there for a year and then after that show you meet similar requirements to an E-2, but with US investors. (there could be conditions that you can't hire people or whatever). I guess this is essentially what many people do instead of E-2, but with business visas and other visa schemes.