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Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

theintercept.com

71–80 of 300 posts

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#71

Where exactly does Paul stand on issues of privacy like this? You'd think we is against it, but he is also okay with ISPs selling your browsing history. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/gop-senators-new...

Whether or not you agree, there is a legitimate & legal distinction between a private corporation and a publicly-funded government organization.

Line gets fuzzy when ISPs, in most part, are government-backed monopolies (I'm "lucky" because both Verion and Comcast covers my area)

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#72
post #5

The problem with the press coverage of this topic is a lack of personalization. What does the government know about me and why is that important? I think most US citizens would be shocked to learn that most of our personal information is accessible without a warrant. (phone records / bank account / email / web history / phone location data / Car location / Purchase history / Facebook etc....). Also, how much the gove…

Someone (the EFF?) put out a really interesting widget a few years ago that demonstrated what you could learn about a hypothetical person using two-removes metadata. In fact, they managed to build a metadata feed which cast the innocent person as a major terrorism threat by sheer coincidences.

I'd love a link!

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#73
post #2

My opinion on hn was unpopular when I spoke out against Apple during the San Bernardino affair, because the FBI seemed to have the proper DOJ signoff and I think the motivation was obvious. However this is unacceptable. We are a society of laws, and one of them is due process. Spying likely started during the Bush years, and Obama somehow escaped scrutiny for continuing the program (even with Snowden leaks). Hopefull…

Your opinion was probably unpopular because DOJ signoff does not make good encryption with a master key any more technologically possible, and HN is a very pro-encryption crowd as a technical means to privacy. The disagreement for me is not about the warrant process but about why this warrant would be different. I think the warrant should not have been granted and needed to be fought in court. And the great thing abo…

I've always felt like the intent of a warrant was to prove to ME that the police were authorized to search my property. I'm thinking back to when people had to physically show up and be allowed entry into your estate.

If my feeling on warrants match up with the true intention of the law (as it was originally written) then no-knock warrants are suspect as well as any kind of secret warrant to tap your phone/computer.

I think even with warrants we still have an issue, because what's really stopping them from getting a warrant in this day and age?

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#74

It's a mistake to empower and legitimize the right. Rand Paul is an extremist on issues of life and limb. Just because he's "good" on this issue doesn't change that. In fact, it makes it more likely that he will be afforded the position of a moderate because he went against his party on this issue, when he is just as extreme as anyone in his party on any others. It is something that Democrats will need to understand…

>> You have to deny them victories, even on issues that you support. It sucks but the right has outsized influence over the country because of party discipline like I've just described. This attitude is the reason politics is fucked. Vote based on issues, not party bullshit. If a party is good on one issue you support and bad on every other issue obviously they won't get your support but voting based on a party and n…

I would say that the reason politics is fucked is that one party is an apocalyptic cult. The Republicans have given up on governance. Change is not possible when one party is willing to defy any norms. I wish it wasn't that way, but unless the right wing is broken as a political block, nothing is possible...

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#75
post #5

The problem with the press coverage of this topic is a lack of personalization. What does the government know about me and why is that important? I think most US citizens would be shocked to learn that most of our personal information is accessible without a warrant. (phone records / bank account / email / web history / phone location data / Car location / Purchase history / Facebook etc....). Also, how much the gove…

Unfortunately I have found that most people aren't shocked when I explain this to them. Most commonly they just say That their life is boring and they've got nothing to hide. Additionally they think that it may be worth the invasion if we can catch the 'bad guys'. I'm not sure what would need to happen to change this sentiment on a large enough scale to get people motivated into political action.

I've found that while it is true that most people don't care about government surveillance, many do care about cyber crime, identity theft, and unsettling ad personalization. I typically am successful in getting people to adjust their behavior to counter these things which has the added benefit of protecting against mass surveillance somewhat.

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason you aren't. The same reason PGP has been around for 25 years and only a miniscule fraction of people ever encrypt their email. I.e., it's because none of this privacy technology is built-in as the default into our communications infrastructure. Therefore, for the average person (and even for privacy-conscious techies), it is inconvenient and difficult, and you have to convince the party you're talking…

It's really not that hard. Mumble works quite well in TCP mode, via Tor onion service. That gives you end-to-end encryption plus some anonymity. Except for the voiceprint issue, anyway. And you get cellular-level sound quality. Latency isn't problematic if you run in press-to-transmit mode.

Mumble is not end to end encryption, at least if the setup isnt one of a party of two running a server.

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#77

While this article offers the clearest presentation of the issue I've seen to date, I think the key point (which the article points out halfway in) is that the truth of Trump's claim that he was wiretapped does not depend on the presence or absence of a FISA warrant. The system is designed to be used without warrant, so those harping on the detail of whether or not a warrant existed that had Trump in scope are not fo…

I've not really been following it but isn't one of the main arguments that Obama would've had to have sign any FISA warrant?

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#78
post #39

It's a mistake to empower and legitimize the right. Rand Paul is an extremist on issues of life and limb. Just because he's "good" on this issue doesn't change that. In fact, it makes it more likely that he will be afforded the position of a moderate because he went against his party on this issue, when he is just as extreme as anyone in his party on any others. It is something that Democrats will need to understand…

>Democrats will need to understand at some point. You have to deny them victories, even on issues that you support. Putting party warfare comjng first before the actual issue is the reason why politics is such a shitshow.

Then how are the republicans so ducking successful? Like it or not our system is controlled by two parties. One of them is opposed to science and democracy. The other is an imperfect group of competing interests. If you want things to change you have to deal with the framework we have. Not choosing is a choice for the side that aims to empower the already powerful.

But you look great on that high horse, cowboy. Your cool disinterest and disdain for the world as is must make your apathy relatively painless. Getty up!

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your opinion was probably unpopular because DOJ signoff does not make good encryption with a master key any more technologically possible, and HN is a very pro-encryption crowd as a technical means to privacy. The disagreement for me is not about the warrant process but about why this warrant would be different. I think the warrant should not have been granted and needed to be fought in court. And the great thing abo…

I've always felt like the intent of a warrant was to prove to ME that the police were authorized to search my property. I'm thinking back to when people had to physically show up and be allowed entry into your estate. If my feeling on warrants match up with the true intention of the law (as it was originally written) then no-knock warrants are suspect as well as any kind of secret warrant to tap your phone/computer.…

The intent of the warrant is to provide a check on the power of the executive branch, where hopefully the jusdge's incentives are divorced enough from the police's so that they can make a decision that is in the best interests of society and not just the police.

Re: Rand Paul: NSA Routinely Monitors Americans’ Communications Without Warrants

#80

While this article offers the clearest presentation of the issue I've seen to date, I think the key point (which the article points out halfway in) is that the truth of Trump's claim that he was wiretapped does not depend on the presence or absence of a FISA warrant. The system is designed to be used without warrant, so those harping on the detail of whether or not a warrant existed that had Trump in scope are not fo…

I've not really been following it but isn't one of the main arguments that Obama would've had to have sign any FISA warrant?

> Obama would've had to have sign any FISA warrant?

No, the straw man argument is that we can tell whether Trump was wiretapped by the presence or absence of a FISA warrant.

The president does not sign FISA warrants, the entire purpose of FISA is to streamline (almost to automate) the issuance of warrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

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