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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#261

Post by dpweb »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

With due respect to all, the concerns about immigration are not about immigrants taking the founder jobs, it's about taking the worker jobs.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#262

Post by vineetch »

freehunter wrote: post #139
capocannoniere wrote: post #67

I assume what they really mean by Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups is that 51% of $1B+ U.S. startups have at least one immigrant founder , right? (as opposed to 51% of unicorn founders are immigrants )

It also heavily depends on the definition of "immigrant". Uber is listed, for example. The two founders of Uber are Travis Kalanick (born in Los Angeles, not an immigrant) and Garrett Camp (born in Canada, resides in San Fransisco). Is Garrett Camp an immigrant? Sure sounds like it. But is that really in the spirit of "founded by immigrants"? I am not arguing in favor of an immigrant ban in any way, I think it's a ba…

>Is Garrett Camp an immigrant? Sure sounds like it. But is that really in the spirit of "founded by immigrants"?

Yes, Garrett Camp is an immigrant. He just happens to be white and from Canada and is thus perceived less as "those other people" and more "American" because he blends in. If he came from Sudan would you consider him to be "more of an immigrant"? Your own comment implies this bias even if you didn't mean for it to sound that way.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#263

Post by gwern »

atomi wrote: post #237
gwern wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. This is exactly what the study shows is not just possible but easy in screening by nationality. Think about US immigration statistics by country ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat... ): you'll see lots of Central and South American countries. Now take a…

There are a lot of other businesses outside the startup bubble. > Immigrants are found to have higher business ownership and formation rates than non-immigrants. https://www.sba.gov/content/immigrant-entrepreneurs-and-smal... And let's go ahead and ignore just how unfair Manifest Destiny was to begin with and even more recently Mexican Repatriation.

Your reference is irrelevant because it doesn't break down by country and you are pulling exactly the equivocation BS I just demonstrated OP was doing. Please reread my comment if you don't understand why you cannot justify current immigration policy by pointing at immigration averages or totals without reference to country.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#264

Post by eeZah7Ux »

snambi wrote: post #138
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many alternatives if you are denied from a university, such as applying to a different university or learning online instead. There is only one America

there are many other countries. so, there is choice for poeple emigrating.

Far from enough. If each city in the world was its own country, maybe.

On top of that, people are born in a random country leading to very unfair [dis]advantages.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#265

Post by xapata »

stale2002 wrote: post #192
xapata wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears we are using different definitions of "central planning". To the degree that the bureaucracy dictates who is allowed to immigrate, when, and for what purpose, the bureaucracy is planning the economy. If your proposal is not affecting who arrives and for what job, then what's the point of it?

Immigration Program X that already exists allows 100k with qualities Y. Immigration Program A that already exists allows 200k with qualities B. This is the state of the current world. We have an existing bureaucracy that dictates who is allowed to immigrate, and when. Make change C so that Program X allows 250k, and Program A only allows 50k. Change C is not changing the amount of government bureaucracy. We already h…

Ok. So wouldn't it be better then to simply put a cap on the number of immigrants per month and not screen them for characteristics beyond criminality?

We could cut bureaucracy and improve economic efficiency at the same time! I'm a small-government guy.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#266

Post by refurb »

xapata wrote: post #221
dmix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Verge article: > While Bannon didn’t explicitly say anything against immigrants, he seemed to hint at the idea of a white nationalist identity with the phrase “civic society.” That seems like a pretty big jump from him citing a common stat to Verge accusing him of calling for a white nationalist state. He didn't say anything close to that. He may hold nationalist ideas where he wants more American's founding…

Knowing that explicit white nationalism could be problematic, a white nationalist might speak in code. This is similar to the way someone might speak in code when discussing criminal activity, since it's illegal to surveil non-criminal discussion. The question in court is whether a reasonable person would interpret a conversation as normal speech or criminal code. "The eagle flies at midnight," is obvious code. Other…

Knowing that explicit white nationalism could be problematic, a white nationalist must speak in code.

You have got to be kidding me. Ok, let me play along.

Xapata is clearly a white nationalist! How do I know it? He doesn't speak in white nationalist terms! Those white nationalists need to speak in code, so the evidence is clear!

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#267

Post by tehlike »

muninn_ wrote: post #159
rdl wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there is value in "go to US/SV, work there, return home with knowledge of how better systems work, establish in your home country", although there are probably scale effects so it's best for humanity overall for the best people to be concentrated. (I'm not sure about the merits of immigration, naturalization, and then return to/interface with birth country, vs. a non-immigrant status. There is probably a good ca…

I agree, but how many people come here from, say, India or wherever, work in IT in somewhere like SF and say ok I've had enough training, time to go make my country a better place? None. I don't blame them either.

It depends on person, as usual. For many, the US residency is a blessing. Things are nice here, compared to where they come from. The quality of life is much nicer, and this is something i'd most definitely want for my kids.

However, there is also a greater advantage to going back home: Those markets usually lack the capital and the knowledge, and it's relatively easy to copy startups from here and implement them in their home countries.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#269

Post by icu »

dragonwriter wrote: post #193
icu wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of this being a variable worth considering. Can you please give me some specific examples so as to sway my opinion?

Two example policies (chosen because they were the first two in a Google search, and show contrasting approaches to the general issue, not, e.g., because of any special relevance of the two institutions): http://registrar.calpoly.edu/content/stu_info/credit_byexam http://admissions.utah.edu/apply/special-credit/challenge-a-...

Hi dragonwriter... I've visited both links and neither of them seem to be related to immigration and how limits to illegal immigration impacts pathways for legal immigration.

Also I did a duckduckgo search (I don't use Google due to their TOS and my perception of their ethics) and could find nothing on the first page of results to support what you were saying which is why I asked.

Please advise.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#270

Post by atomi »

gwern wrote: post #263
atomi wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of other businesses outside the startup bubble. > Immigrants are found to have higher business ownership and formation rates than non-immigrants. https://www.sba.gov/content/immigrant-entrepreneurs-and-smal... And let's go ahead and ignore just how unfair Manifest Destiny was to begin with and even more recently Mexican Repatriation.

Your reference is irrelevant because it doesn't break down by country and you are pulling exactly the equivocation BS I just demonstrated OP was doing. Please reread my comment if you don't understand why you cannot justify current immigration policy by pointing at immigration averages or totals without reference to country.

The statistic from SBA includes _ALL_ immigrants, including those you seem to despise.
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