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Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

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Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#241
post #220
post #207

My experience tells me Airbnb is in big trouble. Last year around Nov, I tried to book a Lake Tahoe cabin for 2 families (1 is mine, another is a friend's) for a simple trip for our young children. I booked via Airbnb few days in advanced. The day before driving to Tahoe, we even called Airbnb to confirm that the listing is OK. The host accepted, but didn't answer to any of our questions. The next morning when we wok…

Sorry you had that bad experience (I would be pissed too), but the logic of (you having a singular bad experience therefore company will likely die) is next to baseless.

Sorry, I should've been clarify a bit more.

The reason I don't believe in Airbnb simply because they lean toward the hosts, but offering no protection for the renters. In some cases, they have policy only applies to renters, but not at the hosts.

Last I checked, the host cancelled on my reservation is still listing and hosting. I believe they can do better. Even Uber lets both driver and rider rate each other.

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guests cannot comment when their stay is cancelled before arrival It's automatically posted as a review on your behalf. > Dealing with a problem is nearly impossible (how do I take a picture of the fact that my 'apartment' is a hotel room? And why can't I talk to anyone?) By taking a picture with your phone and contacting support? There's reasons to dislike Airbnb, but these surely aren't some of them. I've had ~20…

ah yes, the time-honored "My experiences don't match yours so clearly yours are invalid" argument.

Your "no message when host cancels" clearly shows that you have no experience at all, so why talk about it?

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of my bad AirBnB experiences were ones where there were no actual tenants. The ones where it was an actual non-professional bed and breakfast, as the name implies, were fantastic. I travel so much that consistency is important and that is what hotels offer. I see AirBnB as an inferior option for hotels, not a way to meet new friends. I think the idea that AirBnB is going to kill the hotel industry is way overblow…

AirBnB is inferior now because those hosts aren't necessarily designing it for business travelers. They don't have the insight to accommodate that audience. Or maybe the places you are booking don't get a lot of biz travelers. I'm specifically only hosting in destination places because when people are on vacation they are inherently happy. Not saying you are unrealistic or unhappy, but it's a different mindset and yo…

I'm specifically only hosting in destination places because when people are on vacation they are inherently happy.

Perfect, and I'll bet you have a great place. See my previous statement.

But there's no reason why AirBnB can't solve that by creating a standard for what business travelers want - perhaps a business superhost designation.

Supply and demand. To curate that hard, you'd have to have a ton of supply of business focused programs. Might as well just open a hotel at that point.

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#244
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that even though you may not like AirBNB, you're still benefiting from their service. AirBNB has greatly increased the supply of housing in each city, thus causing price drops and forcing hotels to drop their prices in order to remain competitive. If AirBNB really is overpriced for the hassles involved, then no one would use it, and AirBNB hosts would be forced to lower their prices until they find someo…

Unless you live in a city and pay rent or property tax. In which case you're now funding AirBNB as residential units are converted to commercial. Enjoy.

Yes, I was referring to the supply of housing for tourists and visitors, since that's the context the previous poster was referring to.

Regarding total supply of housing for residents + tourists, AirBNB does help here as well. There are a number of people who have extra space in their apartments that they would like to rent out temporarily, without any long term commitments or friction. If AirBNB didn't exist, these people would simply not rent their apartments at all, and that extra space would sit there unused. Thanks for AirBNB and similar services, this extra space is now better utilized to grow the overall supply.

Obviously I don't have any aggregate data on how many people use AirBNB as a substitute for renting, vs letting it sit empty. But anecdotally, I personally know multiple people who use AirBNB but would never take on a sublet/long-term tenant.

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#245
Airbnb is a "disruptor" apparently and a Unicorn. What did they disrupt? The housing market for sure in certain cities. 90 day booking restrictions for example (London), banned in Berlin etc.

The Airbnb service startups now have limitations on their business plans and on the ground issues, residents abuse and legal challenges. This is disruptive and not necessarily a good thing.

Airbnb has opened up new tourist routes and brought income to airlines and local businesses, so the economic contribution has been interesting.

But what is the real message. "Live like a local". I know personally that even if you live in a foreign land for several years it's hard to live a like a local. Its smart marketing, the offer of shared spaces and local people. This was the shared house approach it all started with. This is long gone. Head off to airdna.co and check out the stats on whole apartments. It's a misnomer and still carries through in the press.

Is it better than a hotel? Depends: If its more space and similar price then maybe, always depends on this vs location, its quality, is it really licensed or allowed, and how convenient is entry.

You can of course have parties that hotels may frown on! Hotels have front desks, are quality controlled and for most business people so much more convenient with bars and breakfasts. They also tend to have well organised support and be in convenient locations, You can always use Uber to get a cheap taxi though...Uber and Airbnb, neat merger.

As this thread shows all the latter can be a problem and hence the "SuperHost" status.

Do Airbnb love Super Hosts? Yes of course. Reviews pay booking dividends . But Super Hosts don't always let their places all year and being smart cookies realise being paid at checkout, being charged a commission and the guest paying up to 12% extra could mean more money in their pocket if they did it direct.

Many are direct marketing too and certainly doing rebookings direct. Do Airbnb see this as a problem? Of course, they want 24/7 and all the margin. This is why they hate leakage and try to force instant book and convenient cancellations. This is also guest centric and owner impossible for so many. The two are hard to equate. Booking.com's mantra "Most rooms with free cancellation" is the killer, but does NOT apply 90% of the time to their rental inventory. Clever marketing again!

Airbnb also want to ensure quality inventory and no come-back. Hard with a thousands of unstandardised accommodation. Bad review police-ing is expensive!

Do Airbnb want to be in the main holiday rentals seasonal space? Yes, they just bought Luxury Retreats for $200m, but even this is a slippery fish as these are mainly managers and owners who market everywhere and want/need maximum margin. It's an unusual play but maybe just paying to understand the market more. Trying to forcing any form or control on these properties may well see further industry rebellion.

Add in the Trips launch and other revenue streams and you can see strategically they realise a zenith is approaching on the main models and which company needs so much litigation?

Best prices? Lots of comments on this. The best price is always likely to be direct, price parity slipped out the backdoor years ago. The "Guest Service Fee" is not charged direct. Imagine paying $2000 and then seeing a further $200+ as a service fee. Look under the question mark at checkout, it's their fee not the accommodations. This is beginning to annoy people (a lot).

They could often just book direct with a little searching. It may take 10 minutes, and that's $1200 per hour work! Even lawyers struggle to get that!

The big brands: Expedia (inc HomeAway), Booking.com, TripAdvisor, Airbnb, essentially offer the same thing and thousands of properties are advertised on all of them simultaneously as they sit out front and use the guest fees to pay Google Search (the real controller).

The smart guests are using them to identify great places and then phoning and emailing direct (using Google again) but saving money and getting more information.

Ref: https://www.smarthosts.org/posts/BnTAS2ujKWfNw47TW/airbnb-s-...

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#246
Airbnb is a "disruptor" apparently and a Unicorn. What did they disrupt? The housing market for sure in certain cities. 90 day booking restrictions for example (London), banned in Berlin etc.

The Airbnb service startups now have limitations on their business plans and on the ground issues, residents abuse and legal challenges. This is disruptive and not necessarily a good thing.

Airbnb has opened up new tourist routes and brought income to airlines and local businesses, so the economic contribution has been interesting.

But what is the real message. "Live like a local". I know personally that even if you live in a foreign land for several years it's hard to live a like a local. Its smart marketing, the offer of shared spaces and local people. This was the shared house approach it all started with. This is long gone. Head off to airdna.co and check out the stats on whole apartments. It's a misnomer and still carries through in the press.

Is it better than a hotel? Depends: If its more space and similar price then maybe, always depends on this vs location, its quality, is it really licensed or allowed, and how convenient is entry.

You can of course have parties that hotels may frown on! Hotels have front desks, are quality controlled and for most business people so much more convenient with bars and breakfasts. They also tend to have well organised support and be in convenient locations, You can always use Uber to get a cheap taxi though...Uber and Airbnb, neat merger.

As this thread shows all the latter can be a problem and hence the "SuperHost" status.

Do Airbnb love Super Hosts? Yes of course. Reviews pay booking dividends . But Super Hosts don't always let their places all year and being smart cookies realise being paid at checkout, being charged a commission and the guest paying up to 12% extra could mean more money in their pocket if they did it direct.

Many are direct marketing too and certainly doing rebookings direct. Do Airbnb see this as a problem? Of course, they want 24/7 and all the margin. This is why they hate leakage and try to force instant book and convenient cancellations. This is also guest centric and owner impossible for so many. The two are hard to equate. Booking.com's mantra "Most rooms with free cancellation" is the killer, but does NOT apply 90% of the time to their rental inventory. Clever marketing again!

Airbnb also want to ensure quality inventory and no come-back. Hard with a thousands of unstandardised accommodation. Bad review police-ing is expensive!

Do Airbnb want to be in the main holiday rentals seasonal space? Yes, they just bought Luxury Retreats for $200m, but even this is a slippery fish as these are mainly managers and owners who market everywhere and want/need maximum margin. It's an unusual play but maybe just paying to understand the market more. Trying to forcing any form or control on these properties may well see further industry rebellion.

Add in the Trips launch and other revenue streams and you can see strategically they realise a zenith is approaching on the main models and which company needs so much litigation?

Best prices? Lots of comments on this. The best price is always likely to be direct, price parity slipped out the backdoor years ago. The "Guest Service Fee" is not charged direct. Imagine paying $2000 and then seeing a further $200+ as a service fee. Look under the question mark at checkout, it's their fee not the accommodations. This is beginning to annoy people (a lot).

They could often just book direct with a little searching. It may take 10 minutes, and that's $1200 per hour work! Even lawyers struggle to get that!

The big brands: Expedia (inc HomeAway), Booking.com, TripAdvisor, Airbnb, essentially offer the same thing and thousands of properties are advertised on all of them simultaneously as they sit out front and use the guest fees to pay Google Search (the real controller).

The smart guests are using them to identify great places and then phoning and emailing direct (using Google again) but saving money and getting more information.

Ref: https://www.smarthosts.org/posts/BnTAS2ujKWfNw47TW/airbnb-s-...

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirBnB is inferior now because those hosts aren't necessarily designing it for business travelers. They don't have the insight to accommodate that audience. Or maybe the places you are booking don't get a lot of biz travelers. I'm specifically only hosting in destination places because when people are on vacation they are inherently happy. Not saying you are unrealistic or unhappy, but it's a different mindset and yo…

I'm specifically only hosting in destination places because when people are on vacation they are inherently happy. Perfect, and I'll bet you have a great place. See my previous statement. But there's no reason why AirBnB can't solve that by creating a standard for what business travelers want - perhaps a business superhost designation. Supply and demand. To curate that hard, you'd have to have a ton of supply of busi…

My point was that a lot of hosts cater to people on vacation because that's the bread and butter for them and AirBnB right now. They're well positioned for vacation rentals, not more-demanding business travelers at this point but they're getting better. They haven't cracked that nut; but they could and they are already trying.

I just looked and they have a section for business travelers and for wading through listings [1]. They already have Business Travel Ready Listings [2] which was what I was suggesting. Have you used that or did you go through the front door for your bookings? I didn't know it existed and

Separately - there are advantages of an AirBnB that are more friendly to biz travelers already, like being able to have more flexibility for check-in, free high speed wi-fi, kitchens in almost all listings, better work spaces, etc. So it's a matter of ironing out a few things to make booking easier, adding a good rewards program, and ramping up marketing to compete and steal market share.

[1] https://www.airbnb.com/business-travel

[2] https://www.airbnb.com/business-travel-ready

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#248
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tahoe is a tough market. Prices should be way higher for what you get in my opinion. I'm not in Tahoe but I can sleep 16+ people at my place and I have more problems when I have the price lower. I had guests complain once that there were a few things in one of the bedroom closets (still tons of storage for their stuff), some things in a small pile in the garage and some food in the cupboards (usually have ketchup, ho…

You have a head of turnover, which implies other employees under them, and you only rent out your primary residence?

It's my second home which I rent out about every weekend in the winter peak season. I say head of turnover because she runs a property management firm but I've contracted her operation only for turnover. The property management firms want too much % for the effort which is mostly being decent at yield management and being responsive on AirBnB and VRBO/HomeAway. They used to get 20-30% but with AirBnB and HomeAway, it's moving downward to 10-15%.

My wife is a superhost on AirBnB and it's not challenging - you just have to be responsive. The challenging parts are when you have difficult guests but I also pay my head of turnover to handle those issues a la carte if needed locally, otherwise my wife handles remotely.

It would be very hard to turnover my place without using a company that has staff due to it's size. Laundry takes about 5 hours alone. You have to have multiple sets of clean laundry if you're doing it right. I have a license and pay 10% TOT tax. Other operations aren't registered, don't pay hotel like taxes and don't replace with clean sheets. I did 80k in revenue on one property alone last year and I'm buying another soon. There's a lot of opportunity but you have to buy it right, meet guest expectations, and be compliant.

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#249
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tahoe is a tough market. Prices should be way higher for what you get in my opinion. I'm not in Tahoe but I can sleep 16+ people at my place and I have more problems when I have the price lower. I had guests complain once that there were a few things in one of the bedroom closets (still tons of storage for their stuff), some things in a small pile in the garage and some food in the cupboards (usually have ketchup, ho…

This is changing the subject slightly, but Tahoe, especially S. Tahoe, is a total bargain. There are few destinations which offer what Tahoe does for the price. I will never understand why other alpine destinations can demand higher prices. There is quite a bit of supply in Tahoe though. I do think people have unrealistic expectations, but my house is pretty damn nice. My cleaners are amazing. I'm pretty happy to sta…

Yes I agree. Prices should be WAY higher for what you get. I looked at buying in Tahoe but didn't because I was buying for cash flow, not strictly for a second home. There's just too much high quality inventory and the amount of snow can be an issue for guests. It's a magical place though and if I lived closer I might buy regardless of cash flow.

I don't know of a better value for the consumer. One of my family members purchased a place up there about a year ago and she's starting to do better but it's been a grind. She told me that her renters are often unrealistic. I find it odd given the amount of money up there and the low nightly price but it's probably just the supply and the fact that a lower price means people aren't forced to really evaluate the value as they should. That and the fact that primary housing prices are so damn high, that when people get away they don't/can't spend a lot.

Re: Airbnb raises $1B at $31B valuation, became profitable in 2016

#250
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I got scammed with fancy airbnb pictures a couple of times and now I don't go near it with a 100ft pole. It's totally lost its feel of welcoming host. Now it's just another hotel that's poorly run by people who want to make a quick buck. I stay to hotels even if it's slightly expensive. The level of service and quality is always guaranteed

Sorry to hear that. Did those renters also have good reviews? If so, that might indicate that you can buy fake reviews on ABnB now.

Reviews are a very bad indicator in my experience.

My airbnb stays from 2013-2015 were great and the average tanked.

Airbnb is still doing well and profitable so good for them.

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