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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#211

Post by cromwellian »

muninn_ wrote: post #166
cromwellian wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, tribalism is human nature, and we have done very many ugly things to one another because of it. Much of modern advancement in civil liberties and human rights have come about because of the recognition that human nature is flawed and we need to act to fight our worse instincts. I don't think we should sweep racism and xenophobia under the rug with the argument that "boys will be boys"

What is racist about not wanting things to change? This is a totally separate issue from racism. Calling it "boys will be boys" or "girls will be girls" is a gross oversimplification.

When white people didn't want black people to use their water fountains, it was an existing status quo they didn't want to see changed.

You can justify anything by explaining away people'a xenophobia or bigotry by saying they didn't want change.

We just went through the same argument with gay marriage with people alleging great harm and the need to discriminate against gay people, causing greater harm to them.

I find great irony that people on HN who probably subscribe to ideas of dynamism and creative destruction and disruption as the life blood of innovation are defending cultural conservatism.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#212

Post by zo1 »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #142
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

> you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. I'm sure it's possible to do it, if you take a narrow enough view of 'usefulness', e.g. 'usefulness' = measurable economic productivity. You can screen out people with expensive preexisting medical conditions, people who cannot work, etc., and that will obviously raise the average productivity of immigrants. But it's immoral. Rich host coun…

>"The fair thing to do would be to accept a random sample of would-be immigrants."

All points aside, isn't that exactly what the US is doing with the Green Card lottery system? It's entire mandate is to "increase immigrant diversity", by giving countries with low immigration to the US preferential counts towards the lottery.

>"But it's immoral. Rich host countries are poaching productive individuals while selecting against people who are most in need of help, leaving them to be taken care of by their (usually) poorer country of origin."

You know what is actually immoral? Forcing individuals that want to make a better life for their children, into staying in a country that "needs help" and they want to get out of. The world is not some giant "experiment" for you to optimize and fix. Let people leave and go where they want, and if you want to prevent people from coming into your area, well then let the majority current residents decide.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#213

Post by mnm1 »

freehunter wrote: post #139
capocannoniere wrote: post #67

I assume what they really mean by Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups is that 51% of $1B+ U.S. startups have at least one immigrant founder , right? (as opposed to 51% of unicorn founders are immigrants )

It also heavily depends on the definition of "immigrant". Uber is listed, for example. The two founders of Uber are Travis Kalanick (born in Los Angeles, not an immigrant) and Garrett Camp (born in Canada, resides in San Fransisco). Is Garrett Camp an immigrant? Sure sounds like it. But is that really in the spirit of "founded by immigrants"? I am not arguing in favor of an immigrant ban in any way, I think it's a ba…

You think immigrants smart enough to co-found a billion dollar startup want to come to a country that hates the idea of immigration so much they want to build a wall they know won't work?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#214

Post by 67726e »

mozumder wrote: post #204
anon74663 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, how can you not think that? Logically a Canadian is going to be culturally a better fit, financially better off, and more educated and skilled. It's got nothing to do with race or nationality, just a statement about the average Mexican vs the average Canadian. Don't throw logic out the window in service to liberal ideals.

The US already as plenty of people that "culturally fit better", are more educated, are skilled, etc. We don't have enough people that picks Strawberry crops in California or does home construction in suburbs. We literally don't have those people willing to do those jobs, which can cause runaway inflation. Immigration is not about adding more of the same. It's about filling holes in our economy and labor force. How m…

> We don't have enough people that picks Strawberry crops in California or does home construction in suburbs. We literally don't have those people willing to do those jobs, which can cause runaway inflation

Then increase the wage paid. You're literally arguing for a slave-wage underclass.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#215

Post by elastic_church »

cromwellian wrote: post #124
elastic_church wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the illegals but I didn't speak up because my 401k has been making massive gains and this whole administration has been awesome for me but I can't say that out loud in California because people are still imagining a reason to lose their minds while the checks and balances are working out as intended the whole time!

And your 401k was up massively since Obama took office as well long before this current wave of anti-immigrant sentiment. The market is up because of an irrational belief that Trump is going to enact the pipe dreams of the SeekingAlpha crowd with massive tax cuts that the Democrats are never going to approve. Statistics show most likely there is going to be a big correction and a recession on Trump's watch. Never in…

Decade long QE money machibe whoop whoop

Im well positioned for the bear market

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#216

Post by rdtsc »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

Don't most countries implement some sort of merit-based immigration? "We want educated people with degrees from this age range?".

Don't employees do that as well - "we want people with these qualifications"... is that terribly wrong?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#218

Post by kolbe »

ralmidani wrote: post #155

I'm appalled by the need for statistics showing how "useful" immigrants are. Combating xenophobia should be a moral issue, not a utilitarian one. I understand some people will not be swayed by moral arguments, but society doesn't seem to try anymore. Utilitarian arguments have become the default.

When merely being a person gives you rights to government-issued finite resources, it has to be a utilitarian argument.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#219

Post by microcolonel »

mozumder wrote: post #137
microcolonel wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the whole, a Canadian citizen will be more promising in the U.S. Canadians speak English which is close to Standard American English; the cultures are more similar, and the level of poverty is much lower, meaning they're less likely to become dependent on social programs. If usefulness is measured in ability to contribute to the productivity of the nation as a whole, then Canadians are a better bet (knowing nothin…

So how many Canadians do we have picking strawberries in California? Who do you think is better for controlling the US inflation rate?

There are plenty of Mexican illegal immigrants in Canada, probably helping with our huge pulse crops.

Anyway, there's no point in enhancing the productivity of U.S. domestic agriculture. It is incredibly productive and food is incredibly cheap at the wholesale level. If it becomes a bit more expensive at the wholesale level, I doubt that will shift the consumer price all that much. The people who would have more trouble affording food would also have higher mean income, since they would be more likely to be employed.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#220

Post by witty_username »

falsestprophet wrote: post #209
witty_username wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think building a wall will increase the net flow of illegal immigrants as currently more people are leaving than entering. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-... I don't think you need >3x the annual median income (that's top 10%) for immigrants to benefit. Economics research says high wage immigrants benefit while low wage immigrants benefit the natives on net, although it may harm some na…

"This isn't that crazy, till 1914 in the U.S." Are you sure nothing has changed about the economy since 1914?

I am not saying that and I think the only relevant change is welfare programs—which we can remove/limit for immigrants to stop it from being excessively costly.

Tell me a relevant change that affects my case.

Take a look at https://openborders.info for lots of reasons.

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