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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#71

Post by jinfiesto »

jlebrech wrote: post #44
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

this is also called the slippery slope fallacy.

While I appreciate the recognition of the fallacy, just because the reasoning fits the template for a fallacious argument doesn't mean that it is. The slippery slope argument is only a fallacy if other evidence doesn't exist to suggest we're on such a slope.

There is historical precedent in this particular instance...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#72

Post by rayiner »

xapata wrote: post #57
rayiner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to make that cuts the other way. What is the cost of integrating and potentially supporting a million immigrants compared to the return from one billion dollar startup? (Especially when we're talking a billion dollars of Monopoly money valuation versus day a billion in revenue.)

So far it's worked out, I think. I'm not talking about a billion dollar startup, but trillion-dollar technology. Think Manhattan project, not WhatsApp.

> Think Manhattan project

So established scientists from Western countries?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#73

Post by pj_mukh »

cromwellian wrote: post #18
Cuuugi wrote: post #10

Whenever I see "Immigration" in the title, i think anti-Trump and get sad. No one is trying to stop legal immigration. Tech companies are mad because they are cracking down on H1-B Visa abuse. This is not a bad thing.

Really? Than why so many leaked memos show that Bannon and Miller want to reduce family Visas for those already legally here? Why is Bannon and Miller's favorite novel a racist French book about Europe becoming less white? Why when Bannon was interviewed on radio he said he wanted to bring the numbers on legal immigration way down? You're fooling yourself if you think this is just about undocumented Mexicans, Muslims…

This. so much this. Forget leaks, just stuff he's said in public is alarming enough including the fact that he takes issue with the headline OP posted here [1]. The book he keeps quoting is 'Camp of Saints' and you described it in the nicest way possible[2]. This man sets the agenda for the president :|.

As an immigrant in America, if Bannon and Miller were removed, Trumps policies are not that much different from any other boilerplate republican.

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13653490/steve-bannon-tru...

[2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/06/steve_bann...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#74

Post by davidf18 »

nerdponx wrote: post #7

What percentage of all startups are founded by immigrants? If it's on the order of 51%, you can't rule out the possibility that this number just reflects the base occurrence rate of immigrants in the "population" of all startup founders.

Good studies must discuss denominators as well as numerators. The 51% is misleading. What would be important to know is how many immigrants were founders with a denominator of how many founders were there.

Moreover, there is some (wrong) assumption that an American could not have been a founder in place of the immigrant founders of a similar company.

H1-B visas were created for the intent of not displacing Americans but rather filing jobs for which Americans do not have the skill.

Americans have skills for almost all of the jobs that are filled with H1-B visas. There should be a independent committee that verifies that there are absolutely no Americans available for each individual job.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#75

Post by nerdponx »

xapata wrote: post #33
nerdponx wrote: post #7

What percentage of all startups are founded by immigrants? If it's on the order of 51%, you can't rule out the possibility that this number just reflects the base occurrence rate of immigrants in the "population" of all startup founders.

I don't think that'd counter the author's point.

No, but it changes it.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#76

Post by [deleted] »

jlebrech wrote: post #44
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

this is also called the slippery slope fallacy.

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#77

Post by FLUX-YOU »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

>Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive.

I think this is already subtly done with investor visas. They don't outright deny you obviously, but there are different lines to stand in depending on your usefulness to the country you're going to.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#78

Post by omarforgotpwd »

rayiner wrote: post #54
xapata wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this matters because individual productivity is a log-normal distribution, like VC returns. As a country it's a good investment to invite millions of immigrants trying to find the next major inventor. I suppose this also relies on national productivity being the product of, not the sum of individuals​ productivity.

It seems to make that cuts the other way. What is the cost of integrating and potentially supporting a million immigrants compared to the return from one billion dollar startup? (Especially when we're talking a billion dollars of Monopoly money valuation versus day a billion in revenue.)

It doesn't "cost" anyone much. Immigrants pay for goods and services and provide labor, so they economy just ends up expanding. It's not like taking "too many" immigrants will make you poor because it cost too much. More likely the cost would be social and political rather than economic.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#79

Post by timewarrior »

partiallypro wrote: post #51

This is true but it needs perspective, and I am by no means anti-immigrant. I'm actually a pretty open border person, and am 100% against Trump's proposals (though perhaps there are some instances of H1B being abuse [see Disney].) However, this study should have a big caveat, for starters there are significantly more tax benefits for starting a business if you are an immigrant. Secondly, immigrants don't have entrenc…

Can you please share the details on the tax benefits? I am an immigrant and have started and sold companies and I didn't find any tax benefits.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#80

Post by virtuabhi »

For the people saying why an article from 2016 is on the front page, here is why this issue is still relevant:

"Wilders understands that culture and demographics are our destiny. We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies." - Congressman Steve King, Republican Iowa, 12th March, https://twitter.com/SteveKingIA/status/840980755236999169

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