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Scotland to seek second independence referendum

bbc.com

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Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#31

Post by Arnt »

pjc50 wrote: post #27
Arnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right, but keep in mind that the SNP managed to take 58 out of 59 possible seats in a recent election. Calling the bluff of someone who can campaign to a result as good as that... hm...

Yes, although that's entirely a result of FPTP in a non-proportional system.

FPTP plays a role, but "entirely"? Winning 40+% per cent of the vote isn't easy in the first place, and directing the campaigning effort well enough to win 58 out of 59 single-seat districts is a rare feat.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#32

Post by richardwhiuk »

m0nty wrote: post #14
byefruit wrote: post #6

What a legacy Cameron has left. Alienation of our nearest neighbours and the likely dissolution of the Union. It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement.

Could be worse than that, at least from the viewpoint of the Conservative and Unionist Party, to give them their full (and oft-forgot) name: > "For the first time in my life, the prospect of a united Ireland is not only credible but inevitable" http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/northern-ireland-stormon...

Unionist means union between Northern Ireland and England, not a united Ireland - the term for that is Republican.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#34

Post by krona »

arethuza wrote: post #28
pjc50 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that that's before the official start of campaigning. During the last campaign it went from something like 35% to 48%, partly due to how godawful the Unionist campaign was. I don't even know who they might get to do the No campaign who has any credibility in Scotland. The most sensible option is probably Ruth Davidson, so the most likely choice is someone like Blair McDougall. Labour will probably have to spend…

Too late - Corbyn already said that he is "absolutely fine" with a new referendum.

He said entirely the opposite on the BBC this morning.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#35

Post by s_dev »

bussie wrote: post #33

There's no guarantee that Scotland will be allowed into the EEA or EU as an independent nation. In fact, some member states are opposed to it.

Thats not true. Scotland would have to apply but Brexit negotiators said the application could even be fast tracked and wouldn't be a big problem for Scotland to rejoin.

>Jacqueline Minor, the European commission’s head of representation in the UK, said Scotland would need to formally apply after leaving the UK, although it could be fast-tracked because it already complies with EU rules and regulations.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent...

Spain are concerned that it might a set a precedent for Catalonia to get independence but if the Scottish independence came about because of the UK leaving the EU Spain will be conformable in allowing Scotland to join.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#36

Post by iMark »

bussie wrote: post #33

There's no guarantee that Scotland will be allowed into the EEA or EU as an independent nation. In fact, some member states are opposed to it.

There is, however, a guarantee that a non-independent Scotland will be part of neither as a result of Brexit.

There's no small irony to the fact that scaremongering around Europe was such a big focus of the Better Together campaign in the run up to the first referendum.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#37

Post by biofox »

pjc50 wrote: post #25
byefruit wrote: post #6

What a legacy Cameron has left. Alienation of our nearest neighbours and the likely dissolution of the Union. It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement.

The Union has long operated as internal colonialism; this is just the next step in de-colonising the system. It'll be interesting to see how often Conservative ministers promise that there will be no border between UK and ROI but there will be a hard border between England and Scotland, despite none of this making any sense.

On the point of internal colonialism: it might have been true once, but certainly not true today.

All of the countries in the union have seats in Westminster, dedicate ministers and committees, as well as their own devolved parliaments. I'd say things are much worse for counties in the North of England, than for the other countries in the UK.

The nature of democracy means the majority rules, which will always be problematic for minority communities. The only solutions I can see are to be more cohesive and unified in opinion, divorce completely, or accept differences as the cost of peace and stability and continue working to improve the balance.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#38

Post by nailer »

bussie wrote: post #33

There's no guarantee that Scotland will be allowed into the EEA or EU as an independent nation. In fact, some member states are opposed to it.

> In fact, some member states are opposed to it.

Which ones? Generally the EU wants more stable democracies to hold up the others.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#39

Post by nailer »

krona wrote: post #34
arethuza wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too late - Corbyn already said that he is "absolutely fine" with a new referendum.

He said entirely the opposite on the BBC this morning.

Yes, this is Corbyn. He was also simultaneously for and against Brexit.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#40

Post by therealmarv »

bussie wrote: post #33

There's no guarantee that Scotland will be allowed into the EEA or EU as an independent nation. In fact, some member states are opposed to it.

Well there is really no guarantee but Scotland will pass all tests easily and whole EU will probably help them ;)
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