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We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

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Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#81

Post by buzzy_hacker »

jolux wrote: post #4
empath75 wrote: post #2

I've been thinking of closing my Facebook account, but I'd lose contact with so many friends and family. They don't use email or any kind of instant messenger any more, and nobody makes phone calls any more. If you're not on Facebook you might as well not exist.

I'm in college right now and oscillate between having one and not having one, but most of the social life is organized through Facebook and I end up looking very odd for ritualistically avoiding it (well and Google Docs but that's a different kettle of fish).

Could you elaborate on avoiding Google Docs?

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#82

Post by hugh4life »

bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

Google is a lot less useful than it used to be... Google getting rid of blog search, forum search, and google reader has done as much as facebook to silo-ize the web.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#83

Post by eksemplar »

bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

I encourage people to use Adblock, but I don't think it does much to combat companies like facebook. On facebook the adds and sponsored content is mixed in between your regular news feed, and it would be hard to tell the two apart.

I do think google belongs on the evil list though. They are not as bad as Facebook, but they sure know a lot about you even when you're trying to be anonymous. I've never used my work machine for anything private (I'm odd like that), I've never had it on my own network without a vpn, yet google seemingly knows that it's mine. I've taken quite a few work related certificates over the years, and every time I do, I'll find adds for those exact courses and certificates pop up on my private devices.

Like I'll log into gmail on my iPad, a few days after having searched for TOGAF courses on my work machine, and there will be a sponsored message about a TOGAF course near me.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#84

Post by alphadevx »

bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

> But, to me, Google is quite different.

I think they lost that argument when they started Google+, going into direct competition with Facebook with a comparable product, albeit unsuccessfully.

If anything Google is more sinister to me, with a much broader reach than Facebook into areas like mapping and navigation, personalized ad tech, personalized search, mobile OS, PC OS, web analytics, etc. etc., all at least partially geared towards data mining.

Not defending Facebook by any stretch, but "my dictator is not as evil as your dictator" does not hold up for me.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#85

Post by mirimir »

blub wrote: post #68
subjectsigma wrote: post #21

I agree with the sentiment of this article, but only to a degree. I recommend anyone interested in this to read Open Standards and the Digital Age, by Andrew Russel. The book is a partial refutation of the idea of an 'open web' using historical examples, the most shocking being the failure of open and democratic methods to build an open Internet standard versus the success of Serf and Kahn inventing TCP/IP in a close…

You agree with the sentiment of the article but then you're muddying the waters and shifting the discussion from Big Data companies like Google and Facebook to some abstract ideal of freedom and openness. The only "misleading language" that I see here belongs to you. The author is very clear about what disease has infected software development and the internet. I don't remember many spyware as a service and data coll…

I remember extended discussions on Usenet etc about commercialization of the Internet. Not long after Eternal September, as I recall. The rest, as they say, is history.

The Internet of Tim's dreams still exists. Several of them, really. But they're tiny, with relatively few users. What people now call the Internet is a horrorshow of predators and prey. So it goes. Natural selection rules.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#86

Post by gambiting »

dovdovdov wrote: post #59
jstewartmobile wrote: post #48

The worst part is that if you're employed, it's probably a job requirement to use at least one of these surveillance capitalism platforms. Most people I know in tech have to be on Slack. Most people I know in advertising and PR have to be on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. For some jobs, like journalism, even the "troops on the ground" are required to post and tweet. Even for jobs without the social media taint, a…

I like Slack, our team communication has never been better, I like Facebook (messenger) because it's a common platform for all my acquaintances. Are we forced to share anything (really) personal though?

Interesting - at my work Slack is banned because everything we work on is under NDA and Slack cannot guarantee safety of data.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#88

Post by endisukaj »

alphadevx wrote: post #84
bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

> But, to me, Google is quite different. I think they lost that argument when they started Google+, going into direct competition with Facebook with a comparable product, albeit unsuccessfully. If anything Google is more sinister to me, with a much broader reach than Facebook into areas like mapping and navigation, personalized ad tech, personalized search, mobile OS, PC OS, web analytics, etc. etc., all at least par…

Google+ is not as closed as Facebook though. You don't need a G+ account to view what people are talking about in there.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#89

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

quanticle wrote: post #74
dovdovdov wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Slack, our team communication has never been better, I like Facebook (messenger) because it's a common platform for all my acquaintances. Are we forced to share anything (really) personal though?

Air conditioners using Freon cooled far more quickly than air conditioners using modern hydrofluorocarbons. Leaded gas burns better than unleaded (this is why aviation gasoline is still leaded). In both of those cases, we recognized that it was okay to accept a modest loss in efficiency in order to eliminate some pretty massive externalities. I think the same principle applies here. Yes, your team communication may h…

> Air conditioners using Freon cooled far more quickly than air conditioners using modern hydrofluorocarbons.

While we're at it, there's also no replacement material that has ever come even close to asbestos for braking or insulation.

Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen

#90

Post by clap »

bambax wrote: post #79

While I agree with the gist of the article, I have a problem conflating Google and Facebook in the same evil bag. Facebook is the evilest of evil, not only for the reasons stated, but also because information entered into Facebook never comes out. You have to have an account on FB to see anything on the platform. That is contrary to everything the Web ever stood for. Since I don't have a Facebook account, most of my…

The problem with Google is that all the money it makes are gained by selling top search positions for money with adwords. It is like corruption.

The real evil are ads. They are bedrock of all worldwide bullshit and scam. They make seller don’t care about reputation, competitors and eventually product quality. They transfer products completion into ads competition. They make all products more expensive because of this “advertising tax”. They turn off customer’s head to make a zombie who buys best advertised product instead of one with the best quality. They are good only for advertising companies and scammers.

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