Have any visionaries written what an alternative web looks like I.e we still need the services of Google and Facebook but done in a privacy conscious way.
We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
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Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#12It all went wrong at the firewall. As soon as peer-to-peer was over and NAT became a security layer as well as a technological construct to put more than one host behind one public IP it was essentially game-over.
If you want to reboot the web then you need to reboot the internet first, solve the insecurity of privately hosted servers first and convince ISPs that symmetric connectivity should be the rule.
After that you have a fighting chance.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#13Just like the Newton and the Palm Pilot -- the solutions to this problem came too soon. Diaspora, GNU social, Ello (?) probably others. Perhaps in ten or twenty years a breaking point will come along.
That said, I think there's a real market for closed content like FB's. And even though I find a decentralized system more appealing, I can imagine a new, closed/centralized system taking FB's place in the future.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#14I've been thinking of closing my Facebook account, but I'd lose contact with so many friends and family. They don't use email or any kind of instant messenger any more, and nobody makes phone calls any more. If you're not on Facebook you might as well not exist.
I'm in college right now and oscillate between having one and not having one, but most of the social life is organized through Facebook and I end up looking very odd for ritualistically avoiding it (well and Google Docs but that's a different kettle of fish).
I got on Facebook for the exact same reason when I was in university, and it was necessary as a way to know about events and art openings from acquaintances.
The key is just limiting how much time you spend on there. Not installing the mobile app or Messenger helps.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#15Have any visionaries written what an alternative web looks like I.e we still need the services of Google and Facebook but done in a privacy conscious way.
You might be interested ssb https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/
I've been using the older patchwork client for a while an love it.
some nice peeps have started a thread where they document annoying parts of the old-web they've noticed since using ssb: http://viewer.scuttlebot.io/%25TapY6%2F6ghLYlTdn0pjm7rDLK5kc...
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#16[deleted]
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#17There seems to be a lot of antagonism directed at Google and Facebook in this piece, making it sound as if those companies knowingly stole or forced people to fork over data. I know sometimes it's easy to play the evil mega-corp card, but we need to ask ourselves the question: what is the goal here, to take down Google and Facebook? 'Cause if you're worried about an internet with extra surveillance and restrictions,…
> making it sound as if those companies knowingly stole or forced people to fork over data
Both Google and Facebook are engaged in exactly those practices. Stolen and forced are apt adjectives to describe their behavior. Stolen like Whatsapp data after acquisition by Facebook, like contact lists, location history, voice recordings from your Android phone. Forced like Facebook constantly demanding you provide them your phone number, and making it clear to you that it's not an option by removing the 'no' button and replacing it with my favorite dark pattern 'i will provide it later'.
The problem with both is they're so much more than just a web service. They're pervasive in all facets of life in the developed world. You can't get away from then no matter how much you want to, because they're using your friends to effectively spy on you. And to an extent, both now hold most of the population hostage. I can only begin to imagine how I would need to change my entire lifestyle if I wanted to stop either of these companies from pervasively tracking me. Give up my smartphone, browse the web only with NoScript, only on sites that still work with it, never let my friends take photos of me and upload them, never use any of the popular chat apps to stay in touch with them, etc. Basically the only way to unplug from these monsters is to live like Stallman.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#18There seems to be a lot of antagonism directed at Google and Facebook in this piece, making it sound as if those companies knowingly stole or forced people to fork over data. I know sometimes it's easy to play the evil mega-corp card, but we need to ask ourselves the question: what is the goal here, to take down Google and Facebook? 'Cause if you're worried about an internet with extra surveillance and restrictions,…
I don't think the point is so much about taking them down, as not letting them decide the future. From a larger perspective 2005-2015 is almost like a lost decade of companies implmenting things on new platforms under properitery ownership. Like many other things, the discussion about social networks and reliable information is sort of early 00s. So I would say the goal is to get back to a less short term outlook on development of the Internet.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#19I've been thinking of closing my Facebook account, but I'd lose contact with so many friends and family. They don't use email or any kind of instant messenger any more, and nobody makes phone calls any more. If you're not on Facebook you might as well not exist.
I cancelled mine this week and it's been great. I still reflexively try to open it some...it's that ingrained.
What I realized is that it's a social crutch. I've live in the same town for 13 years and I don't know nearly as many people here as I should by now...largely because I could fall back on people I've known since college.
It gives you an out to avoid forming new friendships because your distant friends are so accessible. At least for me I realized it was.
Now I'm making more of an effort to correct that.
Re: We didn’t lose control of the Web – it was stolen
#20Isn't the problem that that you need money/time to make good, easy to use platforms?
How many people here still use usenet vs reddit/HN ?