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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#41
post #18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that every individual provision is popular with one group or another. But we could move to a system like the UK has where taxes are calculated for you and if you don't have contractor income you don't even need to file. But this would need changes to things like the Married Filing Jointly status.

Married filing jointly is one of the more sexist things codified in US law. It basically says women make no money and the man has to provide for everyone with a big salary so deductions and credits for the big earner. Or it says that if you're a dual income bunch of shmucks, that your wife must make 80% of what you do. Think about when these laws were written and look at it through a historical context. Once you do,…

could you elaborate more, where does it say that your wife should make 80% than what you do?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors already have more patients than they can handle, that's why they work such crazy shifts.

I was under the impression that they worked crazy schedules so they could work 2-3 days and be off the other 4-5 days each week.

Are you kidding? Very rare is the doctor with that kind of schedule.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#43

Serious question: Is it possible for society to criminalize rent seeking behaviors like this? It seems clear that there's no benefit to keeping the status quo tax filing system except for the benefit of tax preparers. What's stopping the US from creating a law that says if a company attempts to lobby for something in bad faith (like the tax example), they will face sanction?

The 1st amendment.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#44

Serious question: Is it possible for society to criminalize rent seeking behaviors like this? It seems clear that there's no benefit to keeping the status quo tax filing system except for the benefit of tax preparers. What's stopping the US from creating a law that says if a company attempts to lobby for something in bad faith (like the tax example), they will face sanction?

To get a law like that passed you'd need lobbyists stronger than the lobbyists representing that industry.

I would say every lobbyist in DC would fight any such law as it would directly threaten their industry.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#45

Serious question: Is it possible for society to criminalize rent seeking behaviors like this? It seems clear that there's no benefit to keeping the status quo tax filing system except for the benefit of tax preparers. What's stopping the US from creating a law that says if a company attempts to lobby for something in bad faith (like the tax example), they will face sanction?

Probably that your proposed rule is so vague that it would be impossible to be enforced .

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#46

Serious question: Is it possible for society to criminalize rent seeking behaviors like this? It seems clear that there's no benefit to keeping the status quo tax filing system except for the benefit of tax preparers. What's stopping the US from creating a law that says if a company attempts to lobby for something in bad faith (like the tax example), they will face sanction?

Not as long as bad policy is good politics. https://youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#48

Serious question: Is it possible for society to criminalize rent seeking behaviors like this? It seems clear that there's no benefit to keeping the status quo tax filing system except for the benefit of tax preparers. What's stopping the US from creating a law that says if a company attempts to lobby for something in bad faith (like the tax example), they will face sanction?

Absolutely. What few people realize is that nations are competing with each other and this is a perfect example of how you can differentiate.

However, your options may be limited at present, or you may have "roots" where you are. If I was founding a nation on the water with Peter Thiel, or in space with Elon Musk, you can bet I would advertise quite loudly that this (and for example pharmaceutical price gouging) would be criminalized.

Today, well, put your votes into people who support it and/or be willing to relocate towards those politicians.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying TurboTax $59.99 is cheaper than going to H&R Block and paying a tax preparer $169

The IRS already knows what taxes you owe. In most cases they could just send you a bill.

Yeah, if they can check if I've paid the correct taxes then they know how much I should pay. Can't they just tell me?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#50

I always love reading absurd statements made by otherwise reasonable people who - of course - a salary depends on being unreasonable. Here: > Intuit argues that allowing the IRS to act as a tax preparer could result in taxpayers paying more money. Majority of work will be done automatically by some free jQuery and PHP scripts (hello Obamacare website) and taxpayers have only shell-out initial cost. Even if TurboTax i…

> Majority of work will be done automatically by some free jQuery and PHP scripts (hello Obamacare website)

Obamacare website was notorious for being completely terrible. And so were many other government-run healthcare sites - I personally tried to find some info on CA site when it was launched and failed for several days until they worked out the kinks.

And tax code is vastly more complex than what healthcare needs. There are literally hundreds of various exceptions, deductions, conditions, etc. Many of them inter-related or conditioned on other things. Did you every try to figure out how to use some of the IRS worksheets? It's no picnic. I recently tried to figure out whether I can deduct the cost of some home improvement I've made - took me several hours and I'm still not 100% sure I got it right. US tax code is insanely complex.

Of course, it may be that IRS has most of it already implemented and it may be that this implementation actually allows to produce pre-filled return (from what I've seen from IRS, it's not that easy, but maybe I'm wrong). Still, the project would probably have very significant cost, and unlike the commercial offerings, it won't be privately financed, and it would inevitably suffer from what many government projects suffer from - cost overruns, bureaucracy, wastefulness, choosing suppliers based on political clout, etc. It's not going to be free, it's going to cost a lot of money.

> Just exactly which part of information that IRS process is not already in the IRS possession?

Quite a lot of it. E.g. my charity donations aren't. Many of my other deductible expenses aren't. Education expenses probably aren't. A lot of small business income may not be. A lot of deals like selling non-public stock aren't.

I think you might have very narrow view of how complex a tax return can be if you don't have just "one/two salaries, standard deductions" situation - which btw many preparers offer to handle for free or near free already. That's not where the problem is. It's when it goes out of that simple case where the complications lie.

And yes, currently the simple taxpayers in some measure are subsidizing the more complex ones, by financing the platform that allows handling more complex cases with their money. However, I'd hate if I had to pay $600-$1K for my more complex case (that what it would cost to hire a tax accountant) instead of $60 or so I'm paying now for the software (plus hours of time reading IRS instructions of course).

Maybe Intuit argument is still bad, I don't know, but it's not as laughably bad as you describe it, not even close.

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