I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it • Hacker News Board

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#181

Post by ben_jones » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

ThePhysicist wrote: post #80

Surprised that no one mentioned the new EU data protection directive, which goes a long way to fix the first issue mentioned in the article, the loss of control over our personal data (only for users in Europe though). I studied it in detail as I work in data analysis and consult companies on this, and I honestly think it is one of the best laws produced by the EU so far: It gives users a multitude of rights such as…

People often joke about the EU being toothless don't they? What penalties exist, as presumably their is a grace period to this that gives companies the time to build the systems in order to respect it? I feel like most small companies will find a way to skirt (or ignore) this as such systems could likely match the complexity of their products themselves..

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#182

Post by schoen » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

throwawaycopy wrote: post #144

K0nserv wrote: post #88

> Today marks 28 years since I submitted my original proposal for the worldwide web. I imagined the web as an open platform that would allow everyone, everywhere to share information , access opportunities, and collaborate across geographic and cultural boundaries. Seems to me that the above and the points raised in point 2 sit on opposite sides of the spectrum. Either you get a free and open internet where everyone…

The DMCA has incentivized everything we see our current corporate-dictated web environment by making none of these businesses liable for any of their actions. The spread of misinformation is a kind of emergent phenomenon. The democratic nature of physical reality hasn't led to every publication turning into the National Enquirer.

In this context you might mean the CDA, which provides a different set of immunities.

Edit: also note that misinformation isn't necessarily defamatory and so even if online intermediaries were liable for content, there wouldn't necessarily be a legal remedy to suppress most "misinformation". For example, there's probably no aggrieved party who can sue to stop a hoax or urban legend about nonexistent persons.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#183

Post by xienze » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:29 PM UTC

chippy wrote: post #169

The current narrative of misinformation as a news item is a new thing, which arrived in our world during the recent US election process. The issue gets my suspicion-radar bleeping. The whole narrative smells funny to me. It's not really a global issue, it's a current affairs issue and one particular to a specific geography. And its not really an internet issue I think but a human one. What I find interesting is that…

My thoughts exactly. The issue of "fake news" being this global menace appeared seemingly out of nowhere despite the fact "fake news" has been a part of internet culture for pretty much its entire existence.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#184

Post by deevolution » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

ThePhysicist wrote: post #80

Surprised that no one mentioned the new EU data protection directive, which goes a long way to fix the first issue mentioned in the article, the loss of control over our personal data (only for users in Europe though). I studied it in detail as I work in data analysis and consult companies on this, and I honestly think it is one of the best laws produced by the EU so far: It gives users a multitude of rights such as…

This might be naive, but.. Shouldnt the internet be as far removed from regulation as possible? This just opens the doors for more regulation by central authorities.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#185

Post by joshuaNathaniel » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

We never had control of our personal data. The WWW wasn't designed with personal data in mind. If it was then https would be the standard. I'm hearing a lot of Chicken Littles. Either adapt to the new age or die. For us this should go without saying.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#186

Post by deevolution » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

elbigbad wrote: post #108

Razengan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spread of misinformation is better countered by educating people about the potential and existence of misinformation, rather than policing the web. Just like children learning and growing wiser about everyday social deception etc., as opposed to policing everything people do and say offline.

Is this just an opinion, or do you have any data on this?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...

Its opinion, but there are definitely people out there who support this approach, such as Neil Postman. Its called crap detection.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#187

Post by eeZah7Ux » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #60

username223 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of internet users view "beautiful" webpages as a display of trustworthiness and importance. Not so much. A lot of web users like simple, predictable pages. Flyout menus spazzing all over the page, giant headers breaking the space bar, and obscure hamburgers hiding useful features just confuse and annoy people who don't know about CSS element blocking.

Those aren't beautiful pages. We geeks, who can understand the code, decry the complexity of a beautiful page and prefer not to go there. But we're 1% of the audience. The other 99% are used to equating beauty and style with quality. More style == more quality. Less style == less quality. The pages we love because of their simplicity don't do well in the mass market because of their simplicity. I have taken to callin…

Most of the really unskilled users struggle with the complexity of the average webpage. Ads that imitate contents, videos, pull-down menus... they get lost in it.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#188

Post by traviscj » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #59

yissir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable truth is that even if style-free information-dense content would be better for you, it wouldn't be better for the advertisers that currently fund this content. And nobody is going to pay for this content out of pocket when they can pay for it though the tax of terrible UX and being reduced to a data product bought by businesses. If the web is broken, it's not because of the technology, but the shaky…

You can still have adverts on style free sites: Then there's paid for promotional content, which is one of the current trends on the web at the moment anyway. As long as information can be rendered then adverts can be included.

Trivial to defraud.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#189

Post by GavinMcG » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

deevolution wrote: post #184

ThePhysicist wrote: post #80

Surprised that no one mentioned the new EU data protection directive, which goes a long way to fix the first issue mentioned in the article, the loss of control over our personal data (only for users in Europe though). I studied it in detail as I work in data analysis and consult companies on this, and I honestly think it is one of the best laws produced by the EU so far: It gives users a multitude of rights such as…

This might be naive, but.. Shouldnt the internet be as far removed from regulation as possible? This just opens the doors for more regulation by central authorities.

Why should it be as far removed from regulation as possible? Why not strike a balance where we regulate certain things that are important to us, and leave open the rest?

More regulation is a good thing if things we as a society deem critical can only be accomplished through regulation.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#190

Post by notahacker » Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

gkya wrote: post #130

notahacker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a world in which all the trustworthy institutions hide all their content behind paywalls and so most people rely entirely on clickbait stuff from sources that don't have reputations to live up to is even worse...

So many "all"s used for a single sentence. They can have a free headline+summary feed, or a paid daily digest, or paid columns+digest and rest gratis. Monetising content is more honest, more predictable and better for the users' privacy and their bandwidth than ads, and I'm telling that I'd buy if they'd supply. At the end of the day, collecting, verifying, editing and publishing news is not free for the news agencie…

So many "alls" (two!) because plenty of paid-for content already exists alongside the free media, and thus your principal complaint is that many news organizations have the temerity to cater to and profit from people that don't want to pay for news as well.

And if the objection is to people being misinformed by clickbait headlines and sensationalised takes on events in articles, I'm struggling to imagine anything that could be more inclined to worsen that situation than increasing the proportion of respectable news organisations that tell people they can pay a monthly fee to access the articles behind the headlines or bugger off and read Breitbart's take on it instead...