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Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

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Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#2
Ha, as if attitude resides in something other than the brain. http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/power

I don't think programmers are alone in this problem, however. People by nature tend to get into their own factions and bash anyone else, even if they have more in common than not. (Also note that programmers do tend to be more harsh toward non-programmers than other programmers.) Though I think programmers haven't yet (to my knowledge) resorted to actual violence, which indicates at least a little more maturity than others...

"Maturing" doesn't make a better programmer, either, I don't think, and I'd rather have Linus Torvalds' programming abilities than anyone else I can think of right now. Plus, a lack of cleverness isn't going to save you, for no matter how much work and effort you put into digging a hole for that gold, a little cleverness would have told you you're digging in the wrong place.

Lastly, I really didn't like this bit:

"It is about realizing that the complexity of software dwarfs even the most brilliant human; that cleverness cannot win. The only weapons we have are simplicity and convention."

When you've met the most brilliant human, see which software dwarfs his brain and which doesn't. I bet a lot of brilliant people can handle a lot of different complexities. Finally, while I'm a fan of simplicity (in the Einstein sense), convention should hardly be a rule. Progress can only be made by breaking convention.

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#4
I'm not sure what his definition of intelligence is. Obviously not the same as mine. He states that the reason "triumphalists" annoy him so much is that he used to be one- and then goes on to explain himself programming something very unintelligent in form and function that took him 20 years to fix. I would paraphrase the post as "I used to be dumb and arrogant, but after 20 years I realize how dumb I was and why don't we all stop being arrogant?"

I would pass on someone with an attitude of hard-work and responsibility for someone with real programming intelligence (the whole package- product to interface to maintenance) in a heartbeat. The last thing I need is someone diligently corroding a code-base.

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#5
post #2

Ha, as if attitude resides in something other than the brain. http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/power I don't think programmers are alone in this problem, however. People by nature tend to get into their own factions and bash anyone else, even if they have more in common than not. (Also note that programmers do tend to be more harsh toward non-programmers than other programmers.) Though I think programmers haven't yet…

He maybe overstepped a little, but the principle is sound:

For robust, maintainable software systems, convention and simplicity trump cleverness.

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#6
Well, for better or for worse, no lisper I know would ever try to fuse a database system in at the kernel level. That's one of the ugliest system designs I've ever heard of.

The whole point of lisp is that the language is extensible, so that once you solve one problem, you NEVER have to think about it again. In other languages, you might have to put some conditionals in, or free some dynamic memory somewhere every time you do a task. In Lisp, you think about that once, build a syntactic structure that does it for you, and then free yourself to actually consider how to solve your problem.

It's the opposite of rock-star-programming. It is assuming that you aren't a rock star, and therefore working to reduce the complexity that your puny mind has to deal with.

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#7
post #5
post #2

Ha, as if attitude resides in something other than the brain. http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/power I don't think programmers are alone in this problem, however. People by nature tend to get into their own factions and bash anyone else, even if they have more in common than not. (Also note that programmers do tend to be more harsh toward non-programmers than other programmers.) Though I think programmers haven't yet…

He maybe overstepped a little, but the principle is sound: For robust, maintainable software systems, convention and simplicity trump cleverness.

It's vague enough that the principle is both sound and useless.

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#9
post #6

Well, for better or for worse, no lisper I know would ever try to fuse a database system in at the kernel level. That's one of the ugliest system designs I've ever heard of. The whole point of lisp is that the language is extensible, so that once you solve one problem, you NEVER have to think about it again. In other languages, you might have to put some conditionals in, or free some dynamic memory somewhere every ti…

How is what you described (having to solve a problem once) different than most languages (especially those with garbage collection). It seems like you're describing libraries, ala growing a language (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8860158196198824415...).

Re: Programming: Attitude Trumps Intelligence

#10
Reflecting upon my previous post, I am wondering why LISP triumphalists like Paul Graham annoy me so much? Perhaps it is because I used to be one myself, in spirit if not in syntax. And also because I now see them as a major symptom of what ails programming.

Responding just to the Lisp part of this post, all programming languages suck (but not equally!). Lisp isn't designed to let you show how clever you are, it's just designed to suck a little less.

For example, until Java came along, Garbage Collection was still mostly regarded as a "toy" feature, rather than as something whose absence would make a language suck. Lisp originated Garbage Collection of course, and remains the only language where you can can find a few other "non-sucky" features that still haven't caught on in the mainstream.

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