After reading many mental gymnastics excercises of varying creativity in this thread that try to explain why the supplemental poverty measure is irrelevant and/or misleading, I'd like to know, how would you define a measure for poverty that's both objective and gives a realistic account of the quality of life in the measured area?
California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
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Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#92The problem with the way poverty is measured in the US is it measures relative income. Being poor relative to other people sucks, but consider the following. You can be poor in the US, and have: - Clean running water - Electricity - Heat - Phone, now plus internet access - Paved roads - Access to basic health care (for now, thanks Obama!) Disclosure: I went through bankruptcy and foreclosure, so I know exactly how mu…
There are certain things that can truly fuck you in the US though. For one thing, it is really easy to "disappear" in a country like, say, India: to move to a different city/state, start over with a clean past. You can be a brand new person and nobody would care...so e.g. if you're some kind of convicted felon, you could (for good or for worse) start over while it is much harder/impossible to do so in the US. I say this not to encourage felony (lol) but I do know some financial/computer crimes are regarded as felonies and can truly fuck you up forever in the US.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything you state is true, but are we really supposed to use third world countries as our baseline? If Michael Phelps used Terry Schiavo as his competition, I doubt he would be as good as he is. In the US we should be comparing ourselves to the best countries with the least amount of poverty, the highest socioeconomic mobility, and the healthiest populions. We can't and won't improve if we always look for the lowe…
Should we be comparing the US of 330 million people versus tiny nations that have artificial advantages due to their small size and homogeneous culture? Which pushes further into how you compare such dramatically different examples in the first place. Consider Finland. Five million people, 82% white, extremely anti-immigration, and they don't have to defend themselves for the most part. The US military shield has mos…
When considering household incomes, its more useful to consider both actual income and government provided benefits as well. Like a sibling pointed out, universal healthcare is just one of the perks offered by most developed countries.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely. California is wildly divided into places you want to live but can't afford (SF), and places you can afford but don't want to live (Barstow). $100k in SF is $33k in Barstow ( http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/san-francisco-ca/ba... )
Except they all face the same tax burden which, as a California resident until recently, is quite high: sales tax, property tax, income tax...they tax everything there, and there are few exemptions. Even at $60K the taxes in CA will eat you alive. Great weather (in SoCal), but the sunshine tax, it seemed to us, was perhaps as much as 50%!
To be fair though, its not like the tax money is going into the pockets of corrupt politicians (well maybe not all of it). California is the most progressive state and spends that money on its residents via education, healthcare, scientific research etc. I would be willing to pay more taxes if the State made good use of what I pay them.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#95karma automotive told me only 10% cost of living increase from michigan. i told them to fuck off
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a split issue. Renters want prices to go down. Owners want prices to go up. Who wins the political clash? Are there more voting owners, or voting renters? Generally there are more owners, though California has one of the lowest home ownership rates at around 53%. Cities draw this average down -- most suburbs have higher ownership rates. With this in mind it shouldn't be a surprise that owners outvote renters.
> Are there more voting owners, or voting renters? Doesn't matter. Owners win because we live in capitalist society, and capitalism means you must be an owner to get full rights. Non-gentry are second class citizens (no free movement, no access to clean water, no right to work the land, no right to build shelter). No free movement: I can't travel to many places without a car because property owners decided only peopl…
>Owners win because we live in capitalist society
NYC exists under the same capitalist system as SF or LA or wherever.
Nothing you have described (need to drive, no clean water, etc.) applies to NYC.
Therefore, your gripes aren't caused by the capitalist system you are blaming.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
So perhaps move those poor americans to the third world. They'll feel like top 1% with those dollars.
Please don't - here in India we don't need a bunch of people too lazy to make their way in America.
Says the person who wants them to all come to the US.
"I agree with that [immigration is a net benefit to nearly everyone] and support more or less open borders" - yummyfajitas
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#98Urban areas in California, where most of the people live, such as the Silicon Valley have extremely high home ownership and apartment rental costs. The article notes this briefly and somewhat obliquely, but it is worth emphasizing. The median home price in San Jose, CA is about $850,000 at present (March 12, 2017) according to Zillow. The average rent for a one bedroom apartment in San Jose is about $2473 per month (…
The direct negative effect on the quality of life of high housing costs is astonishing. Yet there's no real public uproar. When the price of gas goes up, seemingly everyone is up in arms. But housing?! People complain, but no where near as much as they should. In areas with high housing costs, this should be the primary political issue. I guess nepotism just wins the argument...
A large portion of that is likely because many approach house ownership as a investment rather than a living expense.
Very few buy gas from the pump with the expectation of selling it again once the price rises.
Housing as an investment object is a disease of the mind.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't - here in India we don't need a bunch of people too lazy to make their way in America.
Says the person who wants them to all come to the US. "I agree with that [immigration is a net benefit to nearly everyone] and support more or less open borders" - yummyfajitas
I should have caveated that statement with the fact that immigrants must be good people who sell labor to willing buyers and don't victimize innocents. I thought I made that clear by mentioning comparative advantage.
Unfortunately most poor Americans refuse to work, commit disability fraud and otherwise exploit the taxpayer, and commit disproportionate amounts of crime. (Far more than Indians - I've never felt unsafe in any slum here, unlike in the US). You don't get any comparative advantage from people who refuse to trade and merely take things from you.
Re: California has the USA’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
#100Not a surprise to me given that LA has the least affordable rent in the country (a measure of average percent of income spent on rent --- not absolute rent). But in both cases, my intuition is that this just means California is a very desirable place to live. If Dallas has lots of jobs and relatively affordable housing but you choose to live in California despite the financial burden, it must be because you think it…
http://www.apartmentcities.com/Los-Angeles-Apartments/Los-An...
Here's a 15 page list of apartments under $500 in LA.